FactPile "Light" version
FactPile YouTube Channel | FactPile PodCast

Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Where potential takes new form.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Authors

Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:32 pm

Alpha or Omega wrote:This is how they did it. They used the average mass of a human(78 kg & 70% water content, which means 54.6 kg of water)
http://www.physics.le.ac.uk/jist/index. ... view/23/18
Do note that it is for regular vaporization, and they said for an instantaneous vaporization, it requires more than 2.99 gigajoules.


Thank you. I've been wondering where this information came from. Well, I knew of this source, but I've never seen the actual calculation, only the conclusion. Considering I'm assuming both X and Zero are made of titanium (X is made of titanium x and Zero is made of ceramic titanium), the amount of total energy shouldn't be difficult to find, then. So water has a molar mass of 0.01801528 kg/mol. If the amount is of water is 56.4 kg., then that's 3,130.68 moles of water. That seems correct so far. I'm not sure where they got the number to double that amount. That's what I'm failing to understand. Whether I use 40.66 kJ/mol or 2,257 kJ/kg, I end up with 127,293.28 joules.

Heat of vaporization refers to the amount of heat necessary to evaporate a liquid, so since neither X, nor Zero are liquid, I'd have to find the heat of fusion first and probably add that with the heat of vaporization of titanium, which would give me 519,726,000 joules. This is lower than the calculation used for the human body, probably because the human body alone isn't just water. I'm sure there's a few more calculations I'd need to add in there like specific heat, but until I can get a clearer understanding of all of this, I don't think X or Zero would be able to survive even 50 tons of TNT.
Mea quidem sententia
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:36 pm

Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Alpha or Omega » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:55 pm

Mea quidem sententia wrote:
Alpha or Omega wrote:This is how they did it. They used the average mass of a human(78 kg & 70% water content, which means 54.6 kg of water)
http://www.physics.le.ac.uk/jist/index. ... view/23/18
Do note that it is for regular vaporization, and they said for an instantaneous vaporization, it requires more than 2.99 gigajoules.


Thank you. I've been wondering where this information came from. Well, I knew of this source, but I've never seen the actual calculation, only the conclusion. Considering I'm assuming both X and Zero are made of titanium (X is made of titanium x and Zero is made of ceramic titanium), the amount of total energy shouldn't be difficult to find, then. So water has a molar mass of 0.01801528 kg/mol. If the amount is of water is 56.4 kg., then that's 3,130.68 moles of water. That seems correct so far. I'm not sure where they got the number to double that amount. That's what I'm failing to understand. Whether I use 40.66 kJ/mol or 2,257 kJ/kg, I end up with 127,293.28 joules.

They said an H2O molecule has two O-H bonds since 2 Hydrogen atoms are attached to one Oxygen atoms which means two moles of O-H bonds. So 1 mole H2O ➟ 2 Moles OH bonds. Then, they used it for the water dissociation energy for the separation of atoms.
Image
A lesson is learnt from victory, a thousand from defeat.
User avatar
Alpha or Omega
Zombie Eater
 
Posts: 4932
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:33 am
Location: On the Move

Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:29 am

Alpha or Omega wrote:
Mea quidem sententia wrote:
Alpha or Omega wrote:This is how they did it. They used the average mass of a human(78 kg & 70% water content, which means 54.6 kg of water)
http://www.physics.le.ac.uk/jist/index. ... view/23/18
Do note that it is for regular vaporization, and they said for an instantaneous vaporization, it requires more than 2.99 gigajoules.


Thank you. I've been wondering where this information came from. Well, I knew of this source, but I've never seen the actual calculation, only the conclusion. Considering I'm assuming both X and Zero are made of titanium (X is made of titanium x and Zero is made of ceramic titanium), the amount of total energy shouldn't be difficult to find, then. So water has a molar mass of 0.01801528 kg/mol. If the amount is of water is 56.4 kg., then that's 3,130.68 moles of water. That seems correct so far. I'm not sure where they got the number to double that amount. That's what I'm failing to understand. Whether I use 40.66 kJ/mol or 2,257 kJ/kg, I end up with 127,293.28 joules.

They said an H2O molecule has two O-H bonds since 2 Hydrogen atoms are attached to one Oxygen atoms which means two moles of O-H bonds. So 1 mole H2O ➟ 2 Moles OH bonds. Then, they used it for the water dissociation energy for the separation of atoms.


I know, but I just don't understand what they mean by that. Is it that they took the moles of hydrogen and multiplied that by two and then tacked on the moles for oxygen?
Mea quidem sententia
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:36 pm

Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:29 pm

I'm going to attempt calculating the amount of energy required to vaporize X. X is 57 kilograms, but this is his total mass, not the internal parts. In fact, according to the Mega Man X (character) page at Mega Man Knowledge Base, the interior skeleton is made up of a reactive, super flexible armored skeleton. It's the "body skin" that's made up of light weight titanium x alloy. It's clearly stated to be an alloy, not a metal, but we don't know what the titanium has been combined with, so I'm just using titanium. For a human, the total percentage that makes up the skeleton is 15%, meaning that I'll remove 8.55 kg. from X, giving us 48.45 kg.

It's probably less than that as well, since this is to be X's form factor, not his total mass. Let's say removing the portions of X's internal workings since we're focused with the body skin gives us 40 kg. to work with. After all, while our skin makes up another 15%, X's form factor isn't exactly thin. We're probably working with an inch thick at most. Anyway, the molar mass of titanium is 0.047867 kg/mol. We'll assume here that X is 40 kg. since the focus is only on the body skin. This means that the total moles of titanium is 835.648776819102931 moles. I found the binding energy of titanium, which is 8.722903 MeV. Converting this to kJ/mol, I ended up with 8.41632 * 10^8 kJ/mol. Using the same kind of method as the source that Alpha or Omega offered me, the calculation should look like this:

(835.648776819102931 moles) * 8.41632 * 10^8 kJ / 1 mol
= 7.03 * 10^11 kJ, or 168.09 kilotons of TNT.

Well, I messed up. Sure, MeV to kJ/mol is correct, but I should have been looking for kg/mol.
Mea quidem sententia
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:36 pm

Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby theobserver » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:07 pm

Mea quidem sententia wrote:Either way, that doesn't mean X or Zero can withstand that amount of energy. If it requires 2.99 GJ to vaporize a human, does that mean that we're not going to be injured by anything less than that? No. So I don't see the reason for even applying that to X or Zero. By the way, 2.99 GJ is 0.79 tons of TNT. Not even a ton, but I don't suspect titanium being able to withstand that much, either. I'm not sure what calculations were done to determine this amount of energy, but yeah.


That's true, but at the same time, anything less would fail to vaporize a human being. I'm picturing the matter as something of defences. If a human is wearing a knife-proof vest, something like a butter knife should fail to cut through the material.

I don't know. It's not that simple.


That's alright. Maybe something can be gathered using the types of damage incurred from a blast of that size? Like heat, explosive damage, impact force, etc.? We know that Zero wasn't vaporized in the explosion, and X didn't even flinch when he detonated a missile point blank. In addition, there is their shielding/defences to consider, so maybe that took the brunt of the damage.

(835.648776819102931 moles) * 8.41632 * 10^8 kJ / 1 mol
= 7.03 * 10^11 kJ, or 168.09 kilotons of TNT.


So does that change anything regarding the 50 tons of TNT that X/Zero could potentially withstand?
User avatar
theobserver
Harvester of Sorrow
 
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:06 pm
Location: Cyberspace

Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:42 pm

theobserver wrote:That's true, but at the same time, anything less would fail to vaporize a human being. I'm picturing the matter as something of defences. If a human is wearing a knife-proof vest, something like a butter knife should fail to cut through the material.


I know that anything less would fail to vaporize a human. So I think that's where the problem lies. You could say, "It takes x amount of energy to vaporize X/Zero, but y amount of energy can still injure X/Zero."

theobserver wrote:That's alright. Maybe something can be gathered using the types of damage incurred from a blast of that size? Like heat, explosive damage, impact force, etc.? We know that Zero wasn't vaporized in the explosion, and X didn't even flinch when he detonated a missile point blank. In addition, there is their shielding/defences to consider, so maybe that took the brunt of the damage.


The energy shield definitely is taking the damage, so that would bring an end to X/Zero. I'm beginning to think the energy shield that protects Samus is her own life force. The internal Phazon energy in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption uses up an energy tank. According to Metroid Morphology,

"Metroid dissection continues to produce more questions than answers. Our research teams have isolated the energy conduits that run from the invasive twin mandibles to the energy core in the creature's quadripartite nucleus, but the manner in which the Metroid actually extracts the life force from its prey remains an utter mystery. The victim does not lose blood or any other vital fluids, and yet the Metroid extracts energy; identifying this energy is our central problem. It takes no physical form, and yet without it, the victim dies. We will continue to research this matter, as the isolation of this life-giving essence could be the key to our ascendance."

The Metroid that drained Samus' energy in Super Metroid is the same one to restore her energy tanks. This would explain why when Samus' energy is gone, her suit disappears and she dies.

theobserver wrote:So does that change anything regarding the 50 tons of TNT that X/Zero could potentially withstand?


No. I'm not certain if I did that correctly. Water has a binding energy of 460 kJ. I'm still trying to figure out the binding energy for titanium, but maybe what I should be looking for is bond-dissociation energy of titanium.
Mea quidem sententia
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:36 pm

Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:03 pm

I suppose my issue wasn't with trying to find how much energy was required for vaporization, but with atomization. Considering the focus was on the breaking of molecules (H2O), the energy to atomize a human would be 2.99 gigajoules. After all, vapor is made up of molecules. Going back to titanium x, if we just use the heat of fusion, vaporization, and specific heat for titanium, then we can find out the energy required to vaporize it. I will assume that the temperature for titanium is 37°C (310.15 K), the temperature of the human body. Here's some facts for titanium.

Heat of fusion: 322.8 J/g
Heat of vaporization: 8795.2 J/g
Specific heat: 0.54 kJ/kg K
Melting point: 1,941 K
Boiling point: 3,560 K

Since a skeleton for a human is 15% of the mass, 57kg. will actually be 48.45 kg. This is equal to 48,450 g. I'm not sure how much of the body is made up of the inner workings, but I'll ignore it here.

Hf = 48,450 g. * 322.8 J/g = 15,639,660 J
Hv = 48,450 g. * 8,795.2 J/g = 426,127,440 J
Specific heat = 48.45 kg. * 0.54 kJ/kg K (3,560 K - 310.15 K) = 85,025.82555 kJ

Adding this energy together results in 526,792,925.55 J, which is 125.91 kilograms of TNT.
Mea quidem sententia
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:36 pm

Previous

Return to Alternate Battles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron