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Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby theobserver » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:07 am

Mea quidem sententia wrote:It should be around that speed. You could use X5 or X6 if you think it'd make the match fairer. The Ultimate Armor in X4 would grant X unlimited special weapons as long as they're not charged, though, whereas subsequent games reduce the use by 50%. I wouldn't scale X's speed with the speed of Falcon Armor, however, since not all speeds we observe in-game are accurate. For example, those volfons can somewhat keep up with Samus as she's using the speed booster, but I wouldn't think they're close to her in speed.

I think I'll have to do the same for Samus' durability.


I don't mean to compare other enemies' speed in relation to the Falcon Armor, but X's speed in direct relation to it. My argument is that there should be some sort of deliberation towards the dash still being portrayed as faster than the Falcon Armor's flight mode when that itself is consistent in terms of speed as supersonic projectiles. I wouldn't have an issue with accepting X's speed as less than supersonic if he didn't already have feats of shooting enemy shots (including Zero's in quick succession in X2) while these shots are midair, as well as shooting his own shots out of the air. Also, consider that unlike bullets which can be avoided by avoiding their trajectory (which should be doable with low RT), Zero and X by connection have dealt with foes that cognizantly move and attack at supersonic speeds.

Unless characters like Zero can move at that speed range (he can create shockwaves out of his slashes), engaging against supersonic enemies which can attack and withdraw at will rather than being on a set path will end in them losing every time unless they can either predict these enemies' moves somehow, or they can at least physically keep up. For Zero especially, engaging against Fenri Lunaedge in melee would be foolhardy if he can't physically move fast enough to defend let alone attack. Assuming the slow projectiles are a way to see through X/Zero's RT, their own movements in relation to those stimuli would still have to be factored in. After all, RT has to come hand in hand with one's ability to move accordingly, or it is in essence useless.

I don't have my computer at the moment, but here is a rough list of X's durability in accordance to your list on Samus.

Energy - To be determined. There is this feat from MMZ3 that I want to use, but that is Zero/Omega's feat so I can't really scale that for X.

Gravity: No idea how much gravity this accounts for, but Gravity Beetle's spheres were able to do this in the intro. X directly fights against this boss when he uses several gravity spheres.

Heat: X can take damage from lava in Flame Stag's stage, but is otherwise fine. Magma from areas like Burn Dinorex's stage in X5 is an instant kill hazard. The X5 script says "if you touch the lava, you'll be instantly vaporized!" For some reason, X can still remain operational against fire weapons in X8, which for some reason can still burn in space. Unfortunately, since X is created from a different material from Mega Man, I don't know whether he can withstand 12,000C fires. Come to think of it, if lava can vaporize X, he likely can't withstand the same levels of heat as Mega Man.

Cold: X has been hit with absolute zero ice weapons. He becomes encased in ice, but can break out of it.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:29 am

I take it you're getting the impression that X can move at supersonic speed because of the afterimages following after him. In Metroid: Zero Mission and Metroid: Other M, when Samus jumps up or does a somersault, she'll leave an afterimage as well. It's not as noticeable in MOM in that you don't actually see it. You'll see something, which makes you wonder what it is. Fenri is described as attacking at supersonic speed, but what is this referring to? I suppose it really doesn't matter, but the way I see it, you don't need to be able to run supersonic in order to dodge things traveling those speeds. Your reaction time just needs to be lower than average and your motions will need to react on that level as well. However, I don't see this transitioning to travel speed.

I'm not sure what to make of Gravity Beetle's sphere. The buildings around it didn't seem to be crushed, but I'm not sure how high gravity would need to be in order for that to even occur. As for heat, lava can only range from 650 to 1,500°C, although Io (Jupiter's moon) had a temperature of 1,700°C, but that's rare. I doubt titanium would be vaporized at that temperature. Flames typically reach 1,000°C. I'm not sure what you mean by "operational". Are you saying that X will take damage, but still survive? I'm not too sure when it comes to those extreme temperatures. I'm not even sure of 12,000°C being the correct temperature. Did they mean 1,200°C? It wouldn't make sense for Mega Man to survive that, but die in lava. Using color temperature, it'd make more sense, as 12,000°C would make the flame blue. Do you know what the Japanese text says? Either way, Mega Man should die from that hit alone.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby theobserver » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:18 pm

Mea quidem sententia wrote:I take it you're getting the impression that X can move at supersonic speed because of the afterimages following after him.


Actually, I'm getting the impression that X can move at supersonic speed because of his portrayed speed in comparison to supersonic projectiles along with the supplementary data I'm presenting to you. Afterimages in any fiction are generally just indications of an increase in speed so I don't tend to default on them.

Fenri is described as attacking at supersonic speed, but what is this referring to? I suppose it really doesn't matter, but the way I see it, you don't need to be able to run supersonic in order to dodge things traveling those speeds. Your reaction time just needs to be lower than average and your motions will need to react on that level as well. However, I don't see this transitioning to travel speed.


I don't know if it really matters, since Fenri attacks and moves at the same speed. If the developers really wanted his supersonic speed to matter, or to show that characters that attack at supersonic speed are much faster, they could have programmed him to move and behave faster than Zero, which can be seen with Harpuia or other enemies/projectiles in the series. Let me put it this way. You are right in that having a lower reaction time would help in dodging things traveling at high speeds. However, if the enemy both moves faster and can perceive its own motions at the same high speeds (supersonic movement plus low RT), then surely it would overcome the character who only has low RT but no movement speed to match. I'm picturing it like fencing, where if both my opponent and I could perceive each other's actions properly and react accordingly, it should be easier to block and parry my opponent's strikes. However, if my opponent moves far faster than I can move my own body, then my ability to see his strikes would be useless. I could be positioning my blade to parry an attack from one direction, only to miss because my opponent saw through this and moved his blade to a vulnerable spot faster than I could move even if I did see his actions. In this example, I may be able to block a singular attack, but fail to act against a redirected attack or a barrage of attacks simply because my body cannot move fast enough while my opponent's can.

Here is another example. In MMZ2, Harpuia's overdrive is triggered when his health is low enough. It's called a "Super Sonic Boom" according to mmkb (uncited though). In order to dodge the wave, Zero has to cover the same distance as it before it reaches the ground.

I'm not sure what to make of Gravity Beetle's sphere. The buildings around it didn't seem to be crushed, but I'm not sure how high gravity would need to be in order for that to even occur.


I thought the gravity sphere collapsed the buildings and then sucked it into the vortex. But the clip is too short to really tell.

As for heat, lava can only range from 650 to 1,500°C, although Io (Jupiter's moon) had a temperature of 1,700°C, but that's rare. I doubt titanium would be vaporized at that temperature. Flames typically reach 1,000°C. I'm not sure what you mean by "operational". Are you saying that X will take damage, but still survive? I'm not too sure when it comes to those extreme temperatures. I'm not even sure of 12,000°C being the correct temperature. Did they mean 1,200°C? It wouldn't make sense for Mega Man to survive that, but die in lava. Using color temperature, it'd make more sense, as 12,000°C would make the flame blue. Do you know what the Japanese text says? Either way, Mega Man should die from that hit alone.


I'm not sure whether the lava can be called lava in X5 because X/Zero travel inside a volcano. Since the "lava" is several hundred meters down the surface, can it really be called lava? By operational, I mean that X can get damaged by Lumine's "fire" but otherwise he is fine. That is, if you wish to argue that X can get damaged by things in gameplay.

I don't think this is an error, since the 12,000C statement is from the Japanese text. This is from the Mega Man and Bass CD Data: The English text reads as "A robot created from Fire Man" while the Japanese text reads "A robot created based on Fire Man. His body can reach temperatures of up to 12000 degrees Celsius." The manual for Fire Man in Mega Man Powered Up describes him as such: "Previously worked at a waste management facility, wielding super-hot flames that reach 7000-8000 degrees. If the flame on his head goes out,he loses power." Mega Man Powered Up manual, page 26

Mega Man can take multiple hits from this (not as many as other bosses though) and still come out fine. Zero's armor is revealed in MMZ4 to be made out of ceratanium like the original Mega Man. One stage he has to go through is inside an artificial sun. He also fails to escape the explosion of a large missile that made a smoking crater out of a residential district. He came out of it damaged, but fine. Then there is the off-screen reentry feat in MMZ1 after the final boss. Unfortunately, none of these are Titanium X, so they might not apply to X.

EDIT: Forgot to throw in the ending to Mega Man Zero https://youtu.be/4eMdBvRZczg at 1:32. Not sure how he can escape that many things firing at him without turning into Swiss cheese if he can't physically move fast enough. Unless he could just tank the damage and keep trucking on, which is also a possibility.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:55 pm

I don't think X can move at supersonic speed because afterimages are not indicative of anything more than moving faster. If corroborated with other evidence like text or cut-scenes, then I'll accept.

Fenri's movement from one side to the other is linear, which would allow for Zero to move out of the way as he would perceive the attack coming at him like a bullet. It's like saying Samus must travel supersonic without the speed booster as she can dodge sonic and supersonic attacks. In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, she never acquires the speed booster in spite of this. The same can be applied with Harpuia. He may move supersonic across the screen, but is it his attack that he shoots downward moving at that speed, or is the entire attack called "Super Sonic Boom" because it includes Harpuia's movement across the screen? Couldn't Zero see the motion of Harpuia's hands to avoid the attack ahead of time?

I think if you can find out the diameter of the black hole, I could try to figure out its gravity.

At sea level, temperature is 15°C. Temperature increases by 25°C every kilometer, meaning if the X/Zero traveled several hundred meters, the temperature (assuming they traveled 500 m.) would have only increased by 12.5°C, making the temperature 37.5°C, which would be slightly above human body temperature (37°C). So that'd be a tolerable temperature for humans. If they traveled a kilometer, then the temperature would be 40°C. However, with lava around, say the lava itself is 650°C on a low-end, using the 500 m. might be 687.5°C. But I can be entirely wrong about the magma part. If I am, then 650°C will be the temperature we can work with.

8,000°C is the temperature of the core of the Earth from what I've read. I'm not sure how things aren't melting. I'm not sure what to think of X's ability to withstand nuclear explosions, however. As I said before, the reason why I don't think Mega Man would be able to withstand those temperatures is because he can die from coming into contact with lava/magma, but not die from temperatures much higher than that. It's the inconsistency that I'm having a problem with. The artificial sun doesn't seem to have caused a whole lot of problems, as it's used for weather control and has dried out the area, making it a desert. The hottest desert ever recorded was the Lut desert with a temperature of 70.7°C. This "desertification" is said to be spreading toward Area Zero. Standing in the shade will help Zero stay cool.

The magma in the Flame Stag's stage doesn't kill Mega Man, as you have said, so I'd say while he does take damage, the lowest temperature of 650°C shouldn't kill X instantly. I'm not sure what this explosion of a large missile is, but a re-entry feat is odd because a temperature of that would be 1650°C. That would contradict X's vulnerability to 650°C if titanium x is supposed to be more durable than ceramic titanium. I would presume it's supposed to be. But, I suppose that's not so much the issue as thermal insulation. I'm not sure what to make of the last video you posted in your edit. It'd be nice to see what happens, rather than Zero slashing through Copy X.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Alpha or Omega » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:38 pm

Mea quidem sententia wrote:8,000°C is the temperature of the core of the Earth from what I've read. I'm not sure how things aren't melting. I'm not sure what to think of X's ability to withstand nuclear explosions, however. As I said before, the reason why I don't think Mega Man would be able to withstand those temperatures is because he can die from coming into contact with lava/magma, but not die from temperatures much higher than that. It's the inconsistency that I'm having a problem with. The artificial sun doesn't seem to have caused a whole lot of problems, as it's used for weather control and has dried out the area, making it a desert. The hottest desert ever recorded was the Lut desert with a temperature of 70.7°C. This "desertification" is said to be spreading toward Area Zero. Standing in the shade will help Zero stay cool.

To be fair on the lava part, I'm pretty sure that lava is really superheated or something since one of the statements say that it will "instantly vaporize" X.
I don't think normal lava temperatures are even capable of instantly vaporizing titanium with the same mass of a human being.
I'm pretty sure the desert thing was slowly damaging Zero. I am pretty sure it has to do with the amount of damage they take.
Samus can be killed with lava/magma as well, but it does lower damage and takes a longer time to kill her than constant hits from the likes of hyper beam, omega cannon, or power bomb.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:05 am

Alpha or Omega wrote:To be fair on the lava part, I'm pretty sure that lava is really superheated or something since one of the statements say that it will "instantly vaporize" X.
I don't think normal lava temperatures are even capable of instantly vaporizing titanium with the same mass of a human being.
I'm pretty sure the desert thing was slowly damaging Zero. I am pretty sure it has to do with the amount of damage they take.
Samus can be killed with lava/magma as well, but it does lower damage and takes a longer time to kill her than constant hits from the likes of hyper beam, omega cannon, or power bomb.


Lava doesn't vaporize titanium and the highest I'd go for temperature is 1,500°C, even though Io has reached 1,700°C. Titanium melts at 1,668°C. It loses its strength at 430°C. The heat from the desert would cause damage to Zero, but this probably has to do with thermal insulation, not melting titanium. Samus can withstand up to 800 to 1,000°C with the gravity suit, considering my examination of the lava in Metroid: Other M is andesitic.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Alpha or Omega » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:27 am

Mea quidem sententia wrote:Lava doesn't vaporize titanium and the highest I'd go for temperature is 1,500°C, even though Io has reached 1,700°C. Titanium melts at 1,668°C. It loses its strength at 430°C.

Right, but the statement from the script says that the lava will instantly vaporize Megaman X, which is why I said the lava could be way above its normal temperatures. It's not normal for lava to instantly vaporize anything.
To instantly vaporize 57 kg of titanium, I'm pretty sure the heat would need to be way above 1700°C.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby theobserver » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:10 am

Mea quidem sententia wrote:I don't think X can move at supersonic speed because afterimages are not indicative of anything more than moving faster. If corroborated with other evidence like text or cut-scenes, then I'll accept.


Fair enough. It doesn't help that out of the 4 guardians, Harpuia is the only one that can conceivably travel at supersonic, and appears to be based on the Falcon Armor, which is one of the only two armors X has that displays shock waves (the other one is the Blade Armor with it's Mach Dash).

The same can be applied with Harpuia. He may move supersonic across the screen, but is it his attack that he shoots downward moving at that speed, or is the entire attack called "Super Sonic Boom" because it includes Harpuia's movement across the screen? Couldn't Zero see the motion of Harpuia's hands to avoid the attack ahead of time?

I don't think Zero could see Harpuia's hands. If the animations are any indication, whenever Harpuia dashes, all that can be seen is a green blur. I think it's pretty clear that Harpuia is faster than Fenri, who attacks at supersonic yet can still be perceived by Zero. I think Harpuia's movement is included in the attack. Zero mimics the technique after he beats Harpuia, provided the player acquires a high enough mission rank.

I think if you can find out the diameter of the black hole, I could try to figure out its gravity.


The gravity spheres are around half the size of X in the game. https://youtu.be/MBUehiymju0?t=4m50s

8,000°C is the temperature of the core of the Earth from what I've read. I'm not sure how things aren't melting. I'm not sure what to think of X's ability to withstand nuclear explosions, however. As I said before, the reason why I don't think Mega Man would be able to withstand those temperatures is because he can die from coming into contact with lava/magma, but not die from temperatures much higher than that. It's the inconsistency that I'm having a problem with. The artificial sun doesn't seem to have caused a whole lot of problems, as it's used for weather control and has dried out the area, making it a desert. The hottest desert ever recorded was the Lut desert with a temperature of 70.7°C. This "desertification" is said to be spreading toward Area Zero. Standing in the shade will help Zero stay cool.


It's not the first time the series has shown physics-breaking weapons. I want to say that it's stage hazard game mechanics that instantly kills the characters when they come in contact with lava, but the script would disagree and canonizes its effect on the characters. So I guess the lava is more than just a stage hazard. Alpha does bring up a good point. How much higher would the temperatures have to be in order to vaporize titanium? I don't think the inconsistency would stick if we considered Mega Man Universe lava to be hotter than our lava. After all, I don't know of any lava that instantly vaporizes titanium on contact. Also, apparently Fire Man used to be a waste disposal robot, making his 7000-8000C temperature range overkill for its purpose. Clearly the creators of Mega Man had a lot of fun establishing their weapons.

I'm not sure what this explosion of a large missile is, but a re-entry feat is odd because a temperature of that would be 1650°C.

The large missile takes place at MMZ3. https://youtu.be/godicxaFZAA?t=3m14s The background makes it so that there is a large smoking crater right behind the ruined buildings in the background. Omega was in the missile the whole time, and is fine. Zero was blasted away. That's Zero, anyway. X detonates a missile point blank in X2, but OriginalA made an argument that X might have just detonated the fuel instead of the actual warhead.

That would contradict X's vulnerability to 650°C if titanium x is supposed to be more durable than ceramic titanium. I would presume it's supposed to be.

Actually...there is also this tidbit in the script in X5:

"Alia: Well... This area is kind of like the sea of lava. The Probe Ride Armor could probably endure the heat of the lava. " The funny part is that the Ride Armor's cockpit is completely exposed. Other than that, I'm of the opinion that Zero is more durable than X. In both instances of X vs. Zero (in X2 and X5), almost none of X's weapons will work on Zero while all of Zero's attacks will work on X. In X2, only the Speed Burner will even register to Zero while in X5, flat out nothing but the Charged Shot/Nova Strike will work on Zero.

I'm not sure what to make of the last video you posted in your edit. It'd be nice to see what happens, rather than Zero slashing through Copy X.


The intro to Zero 2 revealed that Zero went on to fight the world's army for an entire year. The point was that with that many shooters aiming at Zero, he should have been much more damaged than this after a year of continuous fighting. It's possible that the shots do little to no damage to Zero in canon, or he could have just dodged/sliced them.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:11 pm

Alpha or Omega wrote:Right, but the statement from the script says that the lava will instantly vaporize Megaman X, which is why I said the lava could be way above its normal temperatures. It's not normal for lava to instantly vaporize anything.
To instantly vaporize 57 kg of titanium, I'm pretty sure the heat would need to be way above 1700°C.


The latent heat of vaporization for titanium is estimated to be 9.83 MJ/kg. (ESPI Metals), which means if X has a mass of 57 kg., then it only requires 560.3 MJ to vaporize him. A human would only require 158.2 MJ to at least vaporize the water in the body.

theobserver wrote:I don't think Zero could see Harpuia's hands. If the animations are any indication, whenever Harpuia dashes, all that can be seen is a green blur. I think it's pretty clear that Harpuia is faster than Fenri, who attacks at supersonic yet can still be perceived by Zero. I think Harpuia's movement is included in the attack. Zero mimics the technique after he beats Harpuia, provided the player acquires a high enough mission rank.


So what do you conclude here with regard to Zero's speed?

theobserver wrote:The gravity spheres are around half the size of X in the game. https://youtu.be/MBUehiymju0?t=4m50s


It behaves differently from the other video you showed me. I also thought it was a black hole not a gravity sphere. Still, when X uses it', it has gravitational properties, so I'll test it anyway. It seems to be like Amaterasu from Naruto where it's as hot as the Sun, but doesn't generate any outward heat. Damage only occurs when someone comes into direct contact with it. Anyway, X is 72 pixels tall and the gravity sphere has a diameter of 63. X is 160 cm. tall. 63 px. / 72 px. is 87.5%. This multiplied by 160 cm. gives us 140 cm. The radius would be 70 cm. In order to find the mass, I need to use M = cr^2/G. I am using c (speed of light) because when I did a calculation where I knew the mass should be 10 kilograms, the only way I could get back to 10 kilograms was by using the speed of light. This means the mass is 3.144 * 10^16 kg. The gravitational acceleration would be 4.282 * 10^6 m/s^2, or 436,658 times Earth's gravity.

theobserver wrote:It's not the first time the series has shown physics-breaking weapons. I want to say that it's stage hazard game mechanics that instantly kills the characters when they come in contact with lava, but the script would disagree and canonizes its effect on the characters. So I guess the lava is more than just a stage hazard. Alpha does bring up a good point. How much higher would the temperatures have to be in order to vaporize titanium? I don't think the inconsistency would stick if we considered Mega Man Universe lava to be hotter than our lava. After all, I don't know of any lava that instantly vaporizes titanium on contact. Also, apparently Fire Man used to be a waste disposal robot, making his 7000-8000C temperature range overkill for its purpose. Clearly the creators of Mega Man had a lot of fun establishing their weapons.


Finding the vaporization of titanium is difficult, as searching for it doesn't give me a clear answer like I can find with what temperature titanium melts and boils. I did a calculation to determine how much energy would be required for X, however. I'm not sure what the Japanese text says and furthermore, how do we know if the text actually means "to become vapor", rather than the definition, "cause to die; put to death, usually intentionally or knowingly"? For example, the word "oblivion" means "the state of being unaware or unconscious of what is happening around one", but nowadays, it can be defined as "destruction or extinction". In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, the darkburst says, "This potent blast opens a rift to a dark dimension, pulling enemies to oblivion." Just as one can say, "I'll beat you into oblivion", one could say, "I'm going to vaporize you."

theobserver wrote:The large missile takes place at MMZ3. https://youtu.be/godicxaFZAA?t=3m14s The background makes it so that there is a large smoking crater right behind the ruined buildings in the background. Omega was in the missile the whole time, and is fine. Zero was blasted away. That's Zero, anyway. X detonates a missile point blank in X2, but OriginalA made an argument that X might have just detonated the fuel instead of the actual warhead.


I don't see a crater. I'm not sure what to think of the missile.

theobserver wrote:Actually...there is also this tidbit in the script in X5:

"Alia: Well... This area is kind of like the sea of lava. The Probe Ride Armor could probably endure the heat of the lava. " The funny part is that the Ride Armor's cockpit is completely exposed. Other than that, I'm of the opinion that Zero is more durable than X. In both instances of X vs. Zero (in X2 and X5), almost none of X's weapons will work on Zero while all of Zero's attacks will work on X. In X2, only the Speed Burner will even register to Zero while in X5, flat out nothing but the Charged Shot/Nova Strike will work on Zero.


X may be exposed, but convection is different from conduction. If you open an oven, you can feel the wave of heat but experience no pain. Yet, if you touched the inside of the oven, your hand would burn. This is why I think the varia suit can withstand the air temperature in the Metroid games, but not the lava or magma until she acquires the gravity suit.

theobserver wrote:The intro to Zero 2 revealed that Zero went on to fight the world's army for an entire year. The point was that with that many shooters aiming at Zero, he should have been much more damaged than this after a year of continuous fighting. It's possible that the shots do little to no damage to Zero in canon, or he could have just dodged/sliced them.


It's possible that both occurred, honestly. You said X's attacks don't affect Zero. Are Copy X exact replicas of X? That's not to say over time, damage wouldn't occur. You could punch a table and see no damage, but do it for a long time and you'll see the damage.
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Re: Mega Man X vs. Samus Aran

Postby theobserver » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:26 pm

Mea quidem sententia wrote:So what do you conclude here with regard to Zero's speed?


The only safe conclusion I can make is the obvious one where Harpuia is faster than both Fenri and Zero. I don't know if that changes the consensus about X and Zero's speed. I do stand by my earlier statement though, that if Fenri's supersonic speed was meant to be faster than Zero's movement speed, the developers could have made his motions far faster as they did with Harpuia's dash. Then again, with all the inconsistencies in gameplay, I'm not sure what to think. It appears as though the developers don't really care to put mach cones for every character moving at supersonic. On another note, X's Blade Armor allows him to perform a Mach Dash, which generates a shockwave in front of him and allows him to damage enemies on contact. It travels twice as far as a regular air dash but travels no faster. One thing I did find though is how X can make his bullets travel faster by dashing. It's been present since X1.

https://youtu.be/8k5crw_-1UQ @2:15

If the player just rapidly clicks the fire button, X's shots will always be evenly spaced, but if the player fires one shot normally, then fires another shot while dashing, the second shot will very closely trail after the first shot fired.
I suppose it's kind of like how Samus doesn't outrun her own shots, and how they appear to move faster when she's Speed Boosting.

It behaves differently from the other video you showed me. I also thought it was a black hole not a gravity sphere. Still, when X uses it', it has gravitational properties, so I'll test it anyway. It seems to be like Amaterasu from Naruto where it's as hot as the Sun, but doesn't generate any outward heat. Damage only occurs when someone comes into direct contact with it. Anyway, X is 72 pixels tall and the gravity sphere has a diameter of 63. X is 160 cm. tall. 63 px. / 72 px. is 87.5%. This multiplied by 160 cm. gives us 140 cm. The radius would be 70 cm. In order to find the mass, I need to use M = cr^2/G. I am using c (speed of light) because when I did a calculation where I knew the mass should be 10 kilograms, the only way I could get back to 10 kilograms was by using the speed of light. This means the mass is 3.144 * 10^16 kg. The gravitational acceleration would be 4.282 * 10^6 m/s^2, or 436,658 times Earth's gravity.


That sounds way too high honestly. If that's a rough indication of those gravity spheres, then I wonder what can be said about the Squeeze Bomb in X8, which is straight up stated to be a localised black hole. It's also much bigger than the gravity spheres, and its charged version covers the entire screen, with X at the centre of it. Just like how you asked how everything isn't burning with Fire/Heat Man and their copied weapons, how the hell is the Earth still in orbit with gravity weapons like that? Forget Earthly materials being able to survive that, Earth itself wouldn't be able to withstand that much gravity without collapsing on itself.

Finding the vaporization of titanium is difficult, as searching for it doesn't give me a clear answer like I can find with what temperature titanium melts and boils. I did a calculation to determine how much energy would be required for X, however. I'm not sure what the Japanese text says and furthermore, how do we know if the text actually means "to become vapor", rather than the definition, "cause to die; put to death, usually intentionally or knowingly"? For example, the word "oblivion" means "the state of being unaware or unconscious of what is happening around one", but nowadays, it can be defined as "destruction or extinction". In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, the darkburst says, "This potent blast opens a rift to a dark dimension, pulling enemies to oblivion." Just as one can say, "I'll beat you into oblivion", one could say, "I'm going to vaporize you."


I've tried looking for a translated Japanese script for X5, but couldn't find one. As for the Titanium X, I know that that's all we know about the materials X is made out of, but the X1 script does say that it's his armor skin. Would that make it just the outer layer as in literal skin, or would it be the whole of it, as in what we've been working with so far? As far as can be seen, the current script in X5 just canonizes the instant death mechanic when X touches the lava. I can't understand Japanese nor can I find the Japanese text so I apologise for not being able to provide more accurate materials.

Your link stated that the boiling point of titanium is at 3260C. Since it usually takes much more heat to vaporize rather than boil something, wouldn't that already make it so that the lava in X5 is hotter than the 1700C in Io?

I don't see a crater. I'm not sure what to think of the missile.


Perhaps "crater" was a wrong word choice on my part. The script says this:

Zero: Have you determined the missile's target?

Ciel: The target is... Area Z... 3079. What?! That's a human residential district!! Wait, that's not all... The Dark Elf is there, too!

Later on, Harpuia describes the place as a wasteland.

By "crater" I was referring to how smoke was coming from what I thought was below the ground level where Zero was. If you take a look at the distant buildings, you can sort of make out a large gap between the ruined skyscrapers and the buildings in the distance.

The missile in X2 was fired from a silo. The video I linked also shows that it has a yellow tip if that's any indication of the type of missile it is. I've taken a look at a few missile diagrams and it looks like the warheads are closer to the tip while the fuel tanks are closer to the bottom. I can't seem to find any that resemble the one X detonated though.

X may be exposed, but convection is different from conduction. If you open an oven, you can feel the wave of heat but experience no pain. Yet, if you touched the inside of the oven, your hand would burn. This is why I think the varia suit can withstand the air temperature in the Metroid games, but not the lava or magma until she acquires the gravity suit.


Sorry, I forgot to add in the part where X is able to be submerged in lava while exposed inside the cockpit of the Ride Armor. The path that X takes to acquire the armor piece for the Gaea Armor can only be traversed by submerging into that sea of lava. That's why I found it amusing. X is stated to be instantly vaporized if he touches the lava, yet he can be fully submerged in it in the Ride Armor completely exposed and is required to in order to obtain an Armor piece.

https://youtu.be/UH8gRtuMwpE @0:55

It's possible that both occurred, honestly. You said X's attacks don't affect Zero. Are Copy X exact replicas of X? That's not to say over time, damage wouldn't occur. You could punch a table and see no damage, but do it for a long time and you'll see the damage.


I was confused for a second there. This is Copy X. The generic mooks in Mega Man Zero are called Pantheons, which are cheap replicas of Mega Man X.

I can't find videos of players using other special weapons on Zero, but here are the damage data charts on X2 and X5

http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_Man_ ... Data_Chart
http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_Man_ ... a_Chart_(X)

As you can see, almost none of X's special weapons work on Zero. And even in X2, Zero could nullify damage period by blocking with his arms. Assuming their copied weapons are the same in terms of quality, this would mean that Zero is more durable than X.

Anyway, even if that was the case, and Pantheon shots do negligible damage to Zero, surely having hundreds of them shooting at once would do more damage than what was shown after a full year of fighting? It appears that that's not the only time Zero has faced off against an army of that size. A flashback from MMZX shows this

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/meg ... 0719145422

So yeah, Zero is pretty damn tenacious. And I think I've accidentally given him the spotlight over X again. Oops
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