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My post in Factpile that was eaten.

Postby Alpha or Omega » Tue May 10, 2016 7:17 pm

Sorry, for the bump post, but I was unable to do things I wanted and needed to do things I needed.
Huh, so Hero's Shade isn't a Stalfos?
My bad.
The skeletal face and OoT Link going back into the woods gave me the Stalfos impression
@Lady Ramkin
"The last air bender
State EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN BY “QUALITIES Because I don’t think it means what you think it means. Aang and Korra have Almost NOTHING in common except being the Avatar. And Korra is only the avater because she is the reincarnation of Aang."
Being the Avatar is an Attribute
"Source that. Right now. Unless you are referring to this:
Because they are the same spirit, that is literally the point of Avatar"
You keep telling me all of those are the same spirit, but you don't exactly prove it.
"Which is nothing to do with why I bought him up. You asked why OoT Link would be called an ancestor if he was a past life. To which I responded with what is essentially:
There is no reason he can not be an ancestor AND a past life."
Except I pointed out that Hao doesn't do it because you're using it to compare to Link's ancestry.
I pointed out it was different because TP Link is talking to OoT Link.
"You REALLY need to say what you mean by qualities. Because using like, the actual meaning of qualities what you just said makes no fucking sense."
Why can't a curse follow an attribute?
"Only one person is born with the qualities of Link at a time. That in of itself is bullshit. Since you have not even given a list of what these qualities would need to be. Almost every Link is physically different. So are you going for…. What? Courage. There can only be one brave person in the whole of hyrule at any given time??"
Aside from courage, a green hat, a green tunic, swordsman, toolmaster, the chosen one by the godess(es), and sometimes the only guy able to pull out the Master Sword.
"The only way what you are saying makes any sense is if there was some kind of magical transient property *cough*soul*Cough* that each Link shared that would give them the exact qualities required for the curse to target them."
But it does make sense without a shared soul since it's pretty much only one guy per an era with it.
Also, I found out that souls also has two definitions.
"also, why cant the quality that was cursed be the soul of the hero?? Then we are both right!!!!"
"According to you I have “no proof” of past lives. Lets ignore that you have no proof that OoT Link becomes some kind of kyrptonian super stalfos able to do things he really shouldn’t but okay.
lets Look at the Definition you provided of reincarnation
<i noun
the rebirth of a soul in another body.
synonyms: rebirth, transmigration of the soul, metempsychosis; More
. a person or animal in whom a particular soul is believed to have been reborn.
plural noun: reincarnations
"he believed he was the reincarnation of Louis XVI"
. a new version of something from the past.
"the latest reincarnation of the hippie look"
You point to the second bullet point on that definition which is “a new version of something from the past.”
The example for that definition is “the latest reincarnation of the hippie look”
NO ONE TALKS LIKE THAT. NO ONE. Can you name a single person that would ever actually say anything in that way???????? But that’s not important as absurd as it is to latch onto that stupid definition I cant really stop you."
Does it seem absurd to you because it has hippies in it?
I mean, hippies are absurd, but the reincarnation definition can be used for things other than hippies.
Also, looking it up online, people do indeed talk like that.
Mahatma Gandhi said it.
"however that same Line also reads as reborn in a more direct translation. Let’s look at the definition for that shall we?

“ adjective
. brought back to life or activity.
“a reborn version of social democracy”

. having experienced a complete spiritual change.
“a reborn Catholic”

Now, would you like to go with option 1 which sides with me. Or option 2. However, for you to go with option two you would have to posit That WW Link is actually OoT Link. Like literally the same but with just some kind of change to his moral compass or something. Which we know not to be the case."

Why does it have to be a change to his moral compass?
We see him garbed in Green tunic and is the hero chosen by the gods.
Also, option 1 doesn't disagree with me since it can be used to have "a reborn social democracy."
"2) Soul = personality?
There was some general confusion about The “Triple over soul” thing. I took your response from that to mean that you did not prescribe to the one personality one soul theory.
Which is why I would like to get it out of the way right not.
IF a Link had multiple personality disorder, would he have more than one soul?
Well, we know that "if" is wrong since Link doesn't display multiple personality disorder.
"3) Vision or reality?
Your disregard for the vision stance and insistence on it being an actual stalfos is… I am sad to say FUCKING RETARDED."
While OriginalA did point out that it isn't a Stalfos and it's more of a spirit and spirit world, OoT Link being a spirit and having spirit world doesn't really change my argument to be honest.
Replace Stalfos with spirit and you get the same thing in a summary of my arguments.
I find it funny that we disagree on this particular subject on it being a vision world or not when the real problem is that you should telling why a vision world proves a shared soul.
Okay, so let's say it's a "vision" world as you claim. How does it prove OoT Link and TP Link share a soul?
"We have a glowing golden wolf that Midna NEVER COMMENTS ON. NOT EVEN ONCE.
Shes not even Like “dude are you okay, that thing just jumped inside your head.”
Because as you can see, it does indeed bite right down on his head."
I don't want to be that guy, but that video cuts right into Link getting an Oocoo.
Also, why does Midna's lack of comment prove anything?
She doesn't comment on everything.
And even if you were right, why would it even relate to a shared soul?
"I especially liked it when you said “Except you haven’t given evidence on why it’s a vision.” Because as a I have been saying.

A vision Perfectly explains why
1) There is a glowing, golden, red eyed wolf
2) Why said Wolf can jump inside of Link
3) Why said Wolf can Be inside Links mystical inner mind scape stuff
4) Why said wolf can, of its own free will, turn into a stalfos looking mother fucker.
5) Why Link only ever speaks to the stalfos INSIDE his mystical mindscape
6) Why this particular stalfos is not just a killing machine like EVERY OTHER STALFOS in the series
7) Why this Stalfos has a whole range of powers, like splitting into THREE PEOPLE that no other stalfos has been shown to have."
While OriginalA pointed out things contrary to a Stalfos, you kinda assert some things.
What does all of this have to do with a vision?
1) You don't need vision for a glowing, golden wolf. Some of Links enemies do that without a vision.
2) The wolf isn't jumping inside Link
3) That's Link's inner mindscape? Proof please.
4) How does a vision explain a transforming wolf?
You don't need a vision to have transformation.
5) Prove that it's all in Link's mind. Quotes from OoT Link says it's in a separate world. Not his mind.
6) While it's not a Stalfos, OriginalA pointed out that Stalfos are sentient creatures who can be kind as previous games show.
7) Because visions are the only way to get duplication powers.
"The more you insist that all of that is attributed to a single ACTUAL stalfos the stupider you look."
You say I “can’t prove it’s a vision” when it is INFINTILY MORE LIKELY than the shit you are shoveling. Please try and explain away all of the points above…. Oh wait… you can’t."
Thanks to OriginalA, I just did.
Also, you claimed it to be in Link's inner mindscape when there's nothing saying so, nor have you proved why a vision proves a shared soul.
"You also stated SEVERAL times OUT OF NOWHERE, with NO PROOF that OoT Link Leaves after he teaches the final skill. This is JUST FALSE.
Here we see StaLink Standing Inside Links inner realm. And then the camera fades out. Which if nothing, indicates the fucker is still just standing there."
Aside from the fact that he clearly says Farewell, the only reason why he came to TP Link was because he had regrets.
Since those regrets were eased, OoT Link has nothing to give to TP Link.
"This last bit to wrap up about the “why doesn’t he talk to the rest of them nonsense.
Look at all those avatars. Does Aang talk to ALL OF THEM? No. WHY NOT???? He obviously CAN. WHY DOESN’T HE? WHY?

Are you serious? That clearly shows all of the Avatars at once. Not the same case for Link.
Show Link doing it to all the Links, that's what I asked for.
"Do you see???? Asking that question does NOTHING.
Link can talk to OoT Link without being obligated in ANYWAY to talk to EVERY OTHER MOTHER FUCKER that wears green in the entire Zelda verse."

Or you're wrong because he can't do it contrary to what you're claim.
Nevermind it was all OoT Link's decision anyway which proves his own free will.
"Also,Oot link could not have become a stalfos when you say he did. Because as you keep pointing out, OoT link is an ancestor to TP Link"

That's not the main reason why I said OoT Link was a Stalfos.
I said it was because people become Skull Kids and Stalfos in the Lost Woods and Link was looking for Navi in the Lost Woods.
"From that alone we can come to one of 3 conclusion.

1) A nine year old Link had sex and produced a child

2) A nine year old stalfos Link grew up and had a human child

3) Link did not become a stalfos when you are saying he did"
– – –
Clearly, you are misinterpreting what ancestor means in this context.
An ancestor means an early version or precursor too.
"4) Nitpicky
This bit specifically
It matters because twice now you have asked me to give an explanation for something and the explanation is literally a single – away."

That doesn't mean much to be honest.
Why separate it by a - when you can put it in the same paragraph?
Do you write your essays like that?
"That… sound slightly familiar…."

I mean, you were there.
"Im sorry, you ASKED ME TO PROVE THAT SOMETHING DOESN’T HAPPEN. I LITERALY CANT DO THAT. If you would like to counter this point, YOU have to provide evidence of Midna actually commenting on it. You do understand that right???"
– – –
Why do I have to disprove something that you haven't even proven yet?
"WOOOOOOOOOWW. You know what else manages to get into alternative timelines?? Zleda. And Ganondorf, and rupees and pots and FUCKING GRASS. Why are these things allowed to exist in multiple timelines. Why are they allowed to follow the normal fucking rules of time line splits but Link is somehow excluded. Link isn’t allowed to have one soul in more than one timeline. I mean OoT ganondorf FUCKING CAN but Link cant."

Which is my rhetoric the whole time.
Somehow, you can't believe that a curse can't be on qualities and assert that only souls can do so.
"OoT ganondorf is The ganondorf in wind waker, twilight princess and a Link to the past. Unless you think that only one of them has a soul?? Because obliviously it cant be in multiple time lines right??? RIGHT??? It must have picked which timeline it was in and just ditched its bodies in the other two. RIGHT"

Which baffles me when you think the curse on qualities is traveling through space and time to do so, when it's not the same case for everything else.
"Unless you are saying the curse shouldn’t be able to be in multiple time lines. In which case go back and substitute Link for curse."
– – –
"That is because in almost any other circumstance no one would bother arguing the definition of reincarnation. What it means and how it is used are fairly obvious. But in this case you have decided that Link does not reincarnate. Therefore when the quote comes up that says, “damn, you be a reincarnation bro.” You flocked to the internet and found a definition of reincarnation that fits your view. And it doesn’t even do that very well. By clinging to this definition of reincarnation you have to accept a whole bunch of shit that doesn’t even make sense."
I didn't flock to the internet, I got it from my Zelda sources. I didn't say Link didn't reincarnate.
I said Link reincarnates, just not in the way you perceived it.
I wasn't the only one who "claimed" it.
Mea claimed it.
TvTropes claimed it.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/H ... endOfZelda
Under "Link Copies"
You keep claiming that it doesn't make sense by asserting that it doesn't
"you have done the same thing with the spirit. If you just take it at face value, it becomes fairly obvious that each Link shares a spirit/soul. But you don’t believe that so you went out and found a definition of spirit to suit your very specific needs. And in doing so have no had to accept that Demise has the nigh omniscient power to curse a CONCEPT rather than a single soul. And you have no choice but you run with that, because if you don’t you would have to accept they are the same soul which apparently you just don’t want to do."

Link doesn't share a spirit/soul.
Nowhere is that ever stated and you have to stretch and ignore instances which contradict your stance.
"And no, my argument does not rely at all on comparison. You just refuse to accept any thing and everything for no reason at all. And so I have to point to other places in fiction where it is generally accepted as true."

Yeah it does, every time you bring up Avatar and then claim it's similar, despite the fact that you have to prove Zelda is this exact case to prove similarity.
– why not? Avatar does it. Your bold assertion that they can’t is never backed you just insert it as true

Assuming Avatar does it, then yeah, Avatar does it. Does Link do it?
You have to prove it.
Your bold assertion that they do so isn't backed up by proof, but by assertions.
“If Link can talk to another Link that proves they have different souls” – No it doesn’t. Again, look at avatar Aang has conversations with Roku and they are the same person. Aang is a reincarnation of Roku that is just how the Avatar cycle works

Except you haven't given an exact definition for reincarnation in Avatar, and if you did, good job. You proved it for Avatar, not Zelda.
You haven't proven that OoT Link talking to TP Link is talking to a past life.
You assert it is by trying to compare reincarnation to Zelda to Avatar.
“TP Link Can not be a reincarnation of OoT Link because he is descended from him” – And??? Hao is a character that reincarnates into his own descendant’s line.

And Hao can't talk to a separate version of himself, and that Hao follows the other definition of reincarnation unlike Zelda's Link.
"things that you repeatedly claim are impossible, or are contradictory or are direct proof against my argument have all been done in other fictions with no problem."

Keyword: "Other fictions."
"The real issue here. Is that you have some false idea about the “true properties” of a soul. And when something does not conform to your view of a souls “true properties” you take issue. But you can not point to any examples of where these “true properties” and rules are introduced in Zelda because they are not. Which means you must bend over backwards to interpret the evidence in a way that conforms to your preconceived notions."

Excuse me? I have false ideas of a "soul?"
More like everyone supporting what I am saying has a false idea, because I'm not the only one who thinks so.
You're the only one who claims the prospect of a shared soul even though there's nothing saying that at all in any source.
You're the one to interpret evidence differently such as the Hero's Shade being a past life rather than simply saying he's a separate entity.
Yet, you had to pull a concept from Avatar into the Legend of Zelda which you have yet to prove.
"Which is bullshit. Souls, apart form being entirely fictional, Are different in almost every single story. They have different powers quirks, limits strengths weaknesses and capabilities, They do different things, have different levels of fragility, different things happen to different people in in separate universes when their soul is damaged. Which is why using Soul rape as a method of victory on this site is fucking bullshit. If you Take a character that can tare souls to pieces and put them in a fight against harry potter. That characters soul rape would Not actually harm harry because every time you commit murder in the potter verse it tears your soul in two. In essence every time harry potter wins a match on here, he soul rapes himself."

Funny, you claim that souls in each fictions are different, yet you try to claim, that if reincarnation works the way you think in Avatar, that's exactly what's happening in Zelda.
As to soul rape, the reason why soul rape works is because admin owns this site and says how it will work.
"THERE IS NO uniform measure of a soul Its powers and capabilities are determined entirely by the series in which they appear."

You can also claim this for mind manipulation, magic, and will power, and
"I mean, look at this
In response to me pointing out that StalLink has somehow teleported himself INSIDE OF LINKS WEIRD INNER PLANE, you said:
“And this is relevant to this discussion because?”

Do you see? You are literally overlooking and downplaying the fact that a Stalfos just apparently became ethereal and entered Links BRAIN. Because it it was significant, WHICH IT BLOODY WELL IS. You would have to admit the possibility that StaLink is NOT a legitimate Stalfos. And if you admit that, then you have to admit he could very well be a vision."

Proof that OoT Link is entering TP Link's mind.
Proof that OoT Link is a vision instead of a soul.
Proof that a vision means shared soul.
Prove that OoT Link and TP Link are the same.
You assert too much, and think it somehow makes sense.
I don't understand you at all.
"But That isn’t what you want to be the case. So you are COMPLETELY disregarding StaLinks repeated defiance of what we know Stalfos to be able to do. You would rather ignore evidence, And attribute a whole bunch of utterly bullshit powers to a Stalfos than accept anything that might point back to the one soul idea."
– – –
If I was refusing to believe it, then why did I believe what OriginalA said when he came and disproved that OoT Link is a stalfos.
You, however, refuse to believe that OoT Link is a separate entity, and keep pulling assumptions and assertions to believe that OoT Link is the same soul as TP Link.
I think you're stubborn and wrong, I am not in repeated defiance as you are the one who comes into every Link thread and claim this.
"Like…. Not on the ground. or… anchored."
– – –
The station would have shaken in either scenario.
"Ive been over this like 5 times.

Okay, once more. AND ONLY ONCE.

Your initial assertion, was that Hearts raised pain tolerance.

So, if Link gets stabbed in the gut, he takes 3 hearts of damage and “passes out”

Move on a bit Link Now has 20 hearts.

He gets stabbed in the gut, takes 3 hearts of damage and keeps going, he takes the same amount of damage because his durability has not changed, he just doesn’t pass out.
He then takes a second stab to the gut
Another 3 heats

He has just taken 2 very severe wounds and just keeps going because his pain threshold has not been reached"
I think you are confusing pain tolerance with regeneration.
Link with pain tolerance would still die from being stabbed several times, because he's only ignoring that pain to get through.
He wounds aren't healing, so he dies from blood loss (eventually, unless his wounds are healed) or he dies by a failure from one of the organs.
"He has 20 hearts so he can take six stab wounds to the gut each of which should be lethal, but isn’t because he just passes out. He has just shrugged off six mortal wounds because his pain tolerance was not met"

Or he dies from one major wound.
"Under the durability idea
Link has 3 hearts he gets stabbed in the get, that fucker dies."

Have to be by a super strong guy though.
"He now has 20 hearts, he gets stabbed six times, and his durability tanks a lot of it, but he now has taken almost as much damage as he did when he was killed with just 3 hearts. If he gets hit again he will have taken the same amount of damage as he did when he had just 3 hearts, which is lethal and kills him."

Eh, I did say something along the lines of that.
"Link becomes a tank" is still accurate.
"Do you see?"

I do see, that's the whole thing I saw the entire time.
Well, except the pain tolerance part. You saw that differently.
"They get hit the same amount, but the pain tolerance Link takes ALL of the damage from every attack, whereas Durability Link takes a fraction of the damage."

Except pain tolerance would allow Link to survive a major wound.
"But it ultimately takes the same level of damage to put down durability Link, whereas Tolerance Link Takes more wounds than he was previously able."
Clearly, they take the amount of damage is different.
Durability Link can just shrug off the attacks while pain tolerance Link receives wounds and can die from them.
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Re: My post in Factpile that was eaten.

Postby Alpha or Omega » Tue May 10, 2016 7:18 pm

I only put this here, because for some reason, I can't post my above post in a thread on Factpile.
So, I posted it here, then I am just going to link this argument onto Factpile.
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