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Lasers and Reaction Time -Updated 9/5/12-

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Re: Lasers and Reaction Time -Updated 9/5/12-

Postby Dualgunner » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:59 pm

That would probably be the ideal thing to do, as thanks to this new information we now know that response time is actually dodging things. Though both are important.
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Re: Lasers and Reaction Time -Updated 9/5/12-

Postby Draco » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:25 am

Personally, I feel that this is irrelivent due to your other thread where our own physics do not always apply to these fictional worlds. Since we cannot apply our own set of reality, we need to adopt theirs where a name may be all we get.
Artists, movie producers, and many others like themselves create visual laser effects for the excitement and action it brings. Because it would be fairly boring if, say, in star wars, random holes and small explosions were appearing in space ships or troops without the lighting effects from the laser.
Dramatic effect also takes place in this, slowing down a laser gun for the hero to just barely dodge it is common. Or something similar to that. Because, should it travel instantly, the character would be dead when they've pointed and pulled the trigger.
If we cannot apply real-world physics to these, then why do the same for lasers?
Most of the time a weapon or some small detail of how the weapon works will not be provided. And we are left only with a name. The creators of thegame, movie, or other call it a laser. Why can't we?
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Re: Lasers and Reaction Time -Updated 9/5/12-

Postby Draco » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:31 am

just a question... and pointing a couple things out.
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Re: Lasers and Reaction Time -Updated 9/5/12-

Postby Proto-Mind » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:02 pm

Draco wrote:Personally, I feel that this is irrelivent due to your other thread where our own physics do not always apply to these fictional worlds.


If one thing does not apply to our own real world, then we must question all things that occur in a fictional universe, thus, making everything non-quantifiable.

Draco wrote:Since we cannot apply our own set of reality, we need to adopt theirs where a name may be all we get.


Names aren't sufficient evidence, but as I said in the OP, if these are lasers in those fictional universes, then they're lasers, but they act nothing like our own. So that means those lasers don't travel at c, thus, anyone who manages to dodge or reflect/deflect a laser weapon do not necessarily have nanosecond reaction time.

Draco wrote:If we cannot apply real-world physics to these, then why do the same for lasers?


We don't. Or at least I don't. As I said, they're lasers, but they act nothing like real world lasers, therefore, they don't share the same properties, such as heat, speed, &c.

Draco wrote:Most of the time a weapon or some small detail of how the weapon works will not be provided. And we are left only with a name. The creators of thegame, movie, or other call it a laser. Why can't we?


We can call them lasers, but they're nothing like our lasers.
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Re: Lasers and Reaction Time -Updated 9/5/12-

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:25 pm

Why I was wrong.

Proto-Mind wrote:It seems that if there is an opportunity, people will try giving characters nanosecond reaction time. This is done by observing a character either dodging a laser or deflecting it. However, this cannot be easily determined like bullets. In order to determine if a character can dodge lasers, it is important to observe its properties.


There's no reason here not to treat bullets and lasers alike.

Proto-Mind wrote:Assume that a character deflects a laser beam. All right, so perhaps in that world it is a laser, and perhaps in that world, lasers work different from ours. This does not mean that character has nanosecond RT. Below is a list of determining if a laser is truly a laser in every sense of the word.


Yes, perhaps in that world. If we apply this way of thinking to all things, then we don't get anywhere. In Star Trek: Into Darkness, the Enterprise begins dropping towards Earth. That's right, it drops. A similar style before this movie was in theaters is seen in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, where defeating the Berserker Lord causes it to "fall" in space.

Proto-Mind wrote:1. Is it called "laser" or "laser beam", or is "laser" in the name?
The name of a beam can be misnomer. For this reason, it is important not to accept something as being a laser, just because it is called a laser. In Kingdom Hearts 2, in the battle against Xemnas, the information box at the top left says, "Use Reflect to deflect lasers", yet these do not share the property of a laser. [1] In Metroid II: Return of Samus, Autracks are said to fire lasers, [2] but again they act nothing like lasers. Even Samus' Spazer Beam is called a "Spazer Laser Beam". [3] In Final Fantasy VIII, one of Quistis' Limit Breaks is "Laser Eye", [4] but again, it acts more like a beam, rather than a laser.


I agree that the word "laser" could be a misnomer, but if we dismiss lasers in fiction strictly based on the way they behave, then we'll always dismiss lasers in all fiction. There's a notion many hold that if something is described specifically in fiction, we must accept it because it's lore. Well, yes, perhaps in that world. It's not like the way it behaves isn't also lore, so that doesn't settle anything.

Proto-Mind wrote:2. Can the laser beam be seen?
If a laser can be seen, this does not necessarily mean it isn't a laser. Most lasers are in the infrared (IR) spectrum, which is why it appears invisible to the naked eye. In order to see a laser, it depends on one of three things. The first thing is the environment. If dust, rain, smoke, or mist is present, the laser will become visible. The second thing this depends on is the type of laser. Two types of visible lasers are diode lasers and gas lasers. [5] The third thing depends on whether or not someone is wearing eyewear that allows him or her to see different light spectrums.

So if lasers can be visible, does this mean that we should accept a laser to be a laser if it is any fiction that represents it visibly? Not necessarily. If a laser is visible, it must be proven that it is a diode or gas laser, rather than assuming it is so. It must also work similarly to the way lasers work. Fiction writers/artists will tend to represent lasers visibly because they either are unaware most lasers are invisible, or they're just call it a laser because it's in a SF setting.


Imagine if in video games, lasers were invisible. No one would be able to dodge the lasers because you cannot dodge what you cannot see. Laser bullets are visible, but they cannot be seen, only because they travel too fast for the eye to see. If authors and artists are unaware that most lasers are invisible, then it's the fault of their ignorance that makes the laser visible. I fail to see why this should be dismissed as not a laser. What if the laser can be seen and lore describes it as a laser traveling 299,792,458 m/s? The lore contradicts itself. Lasers may be called such because of the SF setting, so they could actually just be some sort of beam that we don't know of.

Proto-Mind wrote:3. Does the laser beam make sound?
When you turn on a flashlight, do you hear a noise being produced by the light? Probably not. When lasers are fired in fiction, they tend to give a sound. This isn't necessarily true in the real world. Your Blu-ray doesn't produce a sound when the laser is fired, nor does the checkout at a grocery store. If sound is being produced by a laser, it is because of the thermal expansion of the air. Think of thunder when it's produced by lightning. It will produce a popping sound or a loud humming noise.

Another way lasers can produce sound is when they hit their target. It isn't so much of the laser that is producing the sound, but the object being vaporized. Anything else you hear from a laser is likely not coming from the laser, but from the flash lamp. Anyway, although lasers shouldn't make sound because they're light, it should be expected to come from a laser weapon if it's powerful enough to thermally expand air. This means that if the laser produces a sound in fiction, but it's not a popping sound or loud humming noise, it's probably not a laser.


Again, ignorance should not automatically bar a laser as being such. In movies, TV shows, or even video games rely on sound effects, and they could either be limited on the sound effects, or they may think certain sound effects sound cool or maybe they just don't care. In science fiction, sound can be produced in space. Does this mean space in their universe isn't real? Probably not.

Proto-Mind wrote:4. Does the laser beam appear as a straight line instantaneously?
In fiction like the the episode, The Mystery of the Lizard Men in Jonny Quest, [6] or Quistis' Laser Eye, [4] or even in Afro Samurai: Resurrection where Afro battles the Afro Droid, [7] these lasers can be seen traveling. If you can see the laser beam traveling, it's probably not a laser.


Imagine playing Sonic the Hedgehog and traveling at supersonic speeds in-game. The speed would be instant to our senses that the game would be unplayable. Or what if using light speed dash literally caused Sonic to traveling the speed of light in-game. That'd be difficult to play. So if this logic is applied for characters moving at extreme speeds, why cannot the same be said of projectiles, such as bullets and lasers? If I tried playing Spider-Man and had bullets fired at me, I'd always be taking damage because my reaction time cannot react fast enough to the speed of sound. The reason why the laser in The Mystery of the Lizard Men should be dismissed is because it blows up the boat. Lasers don't do that, but maybe it's supposed to be a laser and hit a tank, causing it to explode.

Proto-Mind wrote:5. Does the laser beam appear as bolts or pulses?
While it is possible to make a laser fire in pulses, this isn't the same idea as what the question has in mind. In other words, if fiction presents laser beams as bolts or pulses, such as in Kingdom Hearts 2, [1] or Metroid II: Return of Samus, or in the Kirby series, chances are it's not a laser.


This doesn't prove anything. It contradicts itself because it admits that lasers can fire as pulses, and yet it says it's probably not a real laser because it fires as pulses.

Proto-Mind wrote:6. Does the laser beam bounce off objects or bend without any explanation?
In the Kirby series, the laser power-up will allow Kirby to fire a laser beam, which can ricochet off of surfaces. [8][9][10] This works nothing like a laser. The only time a laser can ever bounce off a surface or angle in a different position is if the laser is bouncing off a polished object like a mirror, or if it is caught in the event horizon of a black hole or some other kind of extremely high gravity.


That's true, but I'm not sure why the laser beams in Kirby ricochet off non-reflective surfaces.

Proto-Mind wrote:7. Does it take time for the laser beam to reflect off a polished surface, such as a mirror?
When light hits something with a reflective property, it takes no time to reflect from the surface. It is instantaneous to the human eye. If, for any reason at all, it takes time for the laser to reflect off an object, it's probably not a laser.


Maybe.

Proto-Mind wrote:8. Does the laser beam produce a bright light when it hits an object?
Not all lasers produce a bright flash when an object is hit. For example, a laser pointer will not do this because they're not powerful enough. In the case of a laser weapon, chances are it will produce a bright light. If it doesn't, even though it's supposed to be a laser weapon, chances are it's not a laser. If this occurs in a dark area, it will appear brighter as opposed to a laser being used out in the open on a sunny day.


Why must developers of movies, TV shows, or video games subscribe to this? Their ignorance is not evidence of the lasers in fiction not being lasers.

So here's what I'd like to say. The main focus should not be on lasers if a character can dodge lasers. The main focus should be on the consistency of dodging lasers. If a character is known for dodging objects traveling hypersonic speed, but fails to react to lightning strikes, then said character should be doubted to dodge lasers unless said character has demonstrated dodging lasers multiple times in the past.
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Re: Lasers and Reaction Time -Updated 9/5/12-

Postby pimpmage » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:18 am

A Rain of las-fire fell around us, puncturing the fence and throwing up set clods of earth. I was forced to turn and use Barbarisater(Force-sword/power weapon) to deflect several shots. The blade hummed as it twitched and soaked up the power.
-P617 Eisenhorn Omnibus.

That quote shows an imperial inquisitor(psyker) deflecting las-gun shots.
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