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Elemental compatibility

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Elemental compatibility

Postby pimpmage » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:41 pm

I was thinking back to the Jackie vs kharn match. And there was one issue that was never solved. That is:
If a form of magic in a fictional universe has no defined origins, must it be ec to nothing? Because that seems a bit nlf. Should that magic not be compatible with everything because of this lack of knowledge?
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby Alpha or Omega » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:40 pm

I have no idea. I've been thinking about this for a while and can't come up with anything.
Magic to me, just exists just to be a handwave to something they can't explain. Take that as you will.
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby pimpmage » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:38 am

I think it would sound reasonable enough to force EC to exist when one or more forces have no defined origin in magic. It allows the match to move forward and make progress.
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:33 pm

So we're going to make every magic that isn't defined have crap like "Threads" from the Wheel of Time series when no such thing is mentioned in the series?
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby pimpmage » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:22 pm

The thing is, without crap like that happening, nlf stuff happens. A fireball with unknown origins wouldn't be stopped by anything, bypassing any magic barriers in any fiction. Just send someone with faster spell casting, mechanical time slows, or someone that's not magical at all. Like top tier necrons vs rand.
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:28 pm

pimpmage wrote:The thing is, without crap like that happening, nlf stuff happens. A fireball with unknown origins wouldn't be stopped by anything, bypassing any magic barriers in any fiction. Just send someone with faster spell casting, mechanical time slows, or someone that's not magical at all. Like top tier necrons vs rand.


Why would it not be stopped by anything? A barrier is still a barrier- just because we don't know what the magic is doesn't stop the barrier from functioning- barriers block things.

Now, barriers that specifically cancel out the "fireball" in a specific way will, of course, depend on the fireball working in that specific way- which is where you're coming from.
A vague ass barrier that "prevents magic from working" is very vague and so covers a wide area of effects.
A more specific barrier that "prevents all psychic abilities from working" is more specific.
A much more specific barrier that "prevents all ninjitstu from working" is much more specific.
And so on and so forth, specifics make certain things weaker because they cease to apply to other things outside of their area.
The more vague something is, the harder it is for specifics to relate to them.

Your problem for Kharn is that he doesn't have a "barrier".
He has a "blessing" from a "specific deity" for a "specific kind" of magic- if you can't match up the specifics then you're facing an uphill battle. Those deities do not hold any sway over other kinds of magic from their own- so Kharn requires EC for his blessing to matter against magics. It's too specific.
If Kharn had a barrier of anti-magic he could throw up- that would be more useful since it still holds the basic property of being a barrier- no matter how EC turns out it would require something from the "other side" to prove it can go through the barrier.

That's how I see it anyways.

Also, is Rand immune to Time Stops?
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:50 pm

I honestly see elemental compatibility to be illogical, although it can help with matches for the sake of simplicity. However, with the way things work, we should be able to come up with a definition of them. Here's my issue. Water is a liquid. So is hydrogen peroxide. We also know both are colorless. If these were from a fictional universe and we knew nothing about them except that both are colorless liquids, would it be a good idea to say that they're compatible? Not if we knew the different effects both had on people. I wouldn't recommend drinking hydrogen peroxide, even though it's H2O2, while water is H2O. If we worked with the law of identity, we'd see that it contradicts elemental compatibility. Just like reality, anything we observe in a fictional universe can be defined.
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby pimpmage » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:18 pm

The fireball bit was a bit of a bad example. My bad. In the case of the Chan vs kharn match, one of the talismans gives TK powers. The origin of these powers is unknown, and kharns blessing negates effects of 'cowardly' warp effects that intend to be used against him directly.
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Re: Elemental compatibility

Postby addseo1115 » Tue May 03, 2016 4:31 am

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