Battlefield removal rules.

[pimpmage]

Hey guys, I thought this might be a more relevant place to discuss BFRs than on a match on the mainland. Here are some scenarios:
1) Person 1 and 2 are both dimension travelers. Person 1 BFR's the other. Does person 1 insta win because he is the initiator of the BFR? Or is it null because both can travel dimension?

2) Person 1 can travel through dimensions. Person 2 cannot. Person 1 BFR's person 2. Is this a win for person 1 because he was the initiator? What if person 2 survives indefinitely wherever he was BFRed to? Person 1 is choosing not to directly fight and defeat person 2. That would be the exact same thing as person 1 choosing to escape to another dimension leaving person 2 alone. Neither combatant is defeated, just kept apart.

[Friendlysociopath]

1) Person 1 and 2 are both dimension travelers. Person 1 BFR's the other. Does person 1 insta win because he is the initiator of the BFR? Or is it null because both can travel dimension?

I'd say scenario 1 is not really an issue as both can return to the battlefield; it's not a BFR if he can just come back. BFR implies a certain, "He's gone and staying gone" scenario.

2) Person 1 can travel through dimensions. Person 2 cannot. Person 1 BFR's person 2. Is this a win for person 1 because he was the initiator? What if person 2 survives indefinitely wherever he was BFRed to? Person 1 is choosing not to directly fight and defeat person 2. That would be the exact same thing as person 1 choosing to escape to another dimension leaving person 2 alone. Neither combatant is defeated, just kept apart.

Difference being Person 1 took an actual action against Person 2. It'd be a very wimpy way to win that the other kids would make fun of him for, but Person 1 did do something to Person 2 instead of doing nothing to him. The difference between running away and removing your opponent is slight, but it is there as far as I can tell.

Just how I see it.

[Commander Cross]

Did no one bring up the ideas on if one of the two sides is an Unkillable/Nigh-unkillable Lunatic that the other more killable side better hope that Battlefield Removal is a viable option because otherwise the killable side gets boned?

[Mea quidem sententia]

If person A sends person B to another dimension, then person A wins. The same applies if vice versa. Unless person B can return to his/her original dimension, i.e., the dimension he/she was originally in before being sent to another dimension, person B loses. Just because people can send others to other dimensions, doesn't mean they themselves are able to return to their original dimension, unless otherwise supported. To think otherwise risks a no-limits fallacy. I usually see the idea that Ganondorf can return to the original dimension if he's sent away from it, but from what I've observed in the Zeldaverse, Ganondorf returns to his original dimension through the aid of Twinrova, Zant, &c.

[pimpmage]

But if person B survives getting BFRed indefinitely, that would be no different than person A escaping to some undefinable place and declaring A the winner. Because B cant find A. No one won or loss, person A refuses to combat the other. If anything, that would sound completely OOC in a vast majority of occurrences.

[Friendlysociopath]

I mean, you could make the same argument for death. If both people can come back from death, then one dying makes no difference. If only one can come back and the other one dies, the one who can come back would be the winner, no?

In my mind, the action against the opponent is the key- it's not running away, it's making your opponent unable to reach you. The difference is one was offensive and one is not. Especially since that's the only way to defeat certain immortal/regenerating characters.

[Mea quidem sententia]

Not if person A is leaving the dimension where the battlefield takes place. If person A decides to leave the battlefield to win by outliving his/her opponent, or just refuses the fight, then person A has forfeited. How will we know if person A is planning on doing this? Well, oftentimes, it's the proponent of person A who makes up his ideas and says person A does this or that.

If person A and person B can resurrect, then the win will fall on who is capable of winning based on a ratio. For example, if the ratio between person A and B is 40:60, person B's favor, then person B wins, regardless of who is capable of resurrecting. Or it could be resolved as, "Whoever dies first loses." Or better yet, if both characters can BFR, resurrect, stop time, &c., then ban that particular ability.

[Soulerous]

Person 1 and 2 are both dimension travelers. Person 1 BFR's the other. Does person 1 insta win because he is the initiator of the BFR? Or is it null because both can travel dimension?

It's null. The whole point behind battlefield removal is it's a legitimate obstacle for the displaced being. Not an arbitrary, nonsensical way to quickly win, but specifically a way to render your opponent unable to fight you.

Person 1 can travel through dimensions. Person 2 cannot. Person 1 BFR's person 2. Is this a win for person 1 because he was the initiator? What if person 2 survives indefinitely wherever he was BFRed to? Person 1 is choosing not to directly fight and defeat person 2. That would be the exact same thing as person 1 choosing to escape to another dimension leaving person 2 alone. Neither combatant is defeated, just kept apart.

As above, what matters is the dynamic of power. Fleeing is removing yourself, and is a loss. Remaining and forcing the other to leave is what counts as victory. The one forced to leave has effectively lost the engagement.

There may be additional considerations with regard to how much of an obstacle the battlefield removal is, how long it lasts. If it's permanent then it's an obvious loss for the removed party, and if they are able to quickly return it's merely a delay of no real consequence. But somewhere between those two points is where the delay turns into a loss, and that point is hazy and ill-defined. It may require a moderator ruling. Details such as mortality and ability to reproduce the BFR effect may or may not be sufficient. But this is the general idea, and usually it's all that is needed.

[addseo1115]

If person A decides to leave the battlefield to win by outliving his/her opponent, or just refuses the fight, then person A has forfeited.
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[jacob]

I may asked if a person has been failed in a battlefield for the first time, will he be able to fight again? What would would be the consequences once the person has been failed during the fight? And what would happen to the winner, what would be the possible rewards?

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