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Vegito vs Omnimon

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Re: Vegito vs Omnimon

Postby ka-tet19 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:54 pm

guardianangel1911 wrote:In some cases it fluctuates with canon, universal isn't an unfair statement perhaps considering Omnimon X-Antibody in the movie he appeared in killed a Yggdrasil avatar with an attack that also reset the universe they were in.

But well, you've also got other wackiness. For instance I mentioned Re:Digitize, in that game the canon player character partner Digimon for the final battle is a WarGreymon, which is half of Omnimon, who fights alongside the ally characters Royal Knight Ulforce Veedramon (not a typo its Ulforce not Ultforce) against a berserk Lucemon Satan Mode. I bring that up because as a Demon Lord Lucemon is a complicated beast. But for the basics, Rookie Lucemon's power got split into three Mega Digimon (Seraphimon, Ophanimon, Cherubimon) one of whom (Seraphimon) has an ultimate suicide attack that is the equivalent of a big bang. Lucemon digivolves into the Ultimate form Lucemon Falldown mode the Demon Lord of Pride who is considerably more powerful than the Rookie whose power is strong enough a 3rd of it is theoretically universe level...and Satan Mode the mega form of Lucemon is stronger still. The heroes canonically win this battle with WarGreymon playing a major part, WarGreymon is a part of Omnimon who is stronger than WarGreymon.

Oh, and Cybersleuth also revealed that the Demon Lords we see in the anime, manga, and games are fragments of the true entities split infinitely across the multiverse. Each time one is destroyed its power is split infinitely between the remaining versions of themselves. Make of that what you fucking will because either it means absolute bullshit or it's just that the power they have somehow gets split infinitely even though its finite which raises more questions.

Basically opening scaling to the entirety of Digimon's infinite multiverse is a fucking insane can of worms. Even just limiting this to Adventure and not having Omnimon X-Antibody as an option doesn't help much because Adventure has its own games and is tied directly into Tamers due to various events (and also you get the massive crossover during Young Hunters Leaping Through Time where all previous leader Digidestined show up to fight the final boss of the series) and there's all kinds of horrifying scaling even there.

So...depending on how you want to scale or interpret stuff Omnimon can be universal, multi-universal, or some degree of outright multiversal. Digimon's infinite multiverse being open is...a horrifying can of worms in a Pandora's Box in Ryleah.

It seems to me this is a debate of which character is more multi-universal than the other. (I actually stopped debating Dragon Ball threads before super came out because I found how people feel about power scaling is too relevant to what tier you put the characters at. This however seems like the perfect chance to engage in some silly levels of powerscaling). So for starters we have the obvious SSJ God Goku who's punches threatened the macrocosm of the dragon ball verse. This means when him and beerus collided punches they threatened 3 finite universes. How much stronger SSJ blue is than SSJ god is a little fuzzy but many fans accept a 50x multiplier. This is backed up by the Goku quote "I'm a Saiyan with the powers of a Super Saiyan God who is Super Saiyan." Along with this we have Vegeta destroying the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. The Hyperbolic Time Chamber has been both described as planet sized and as endless. One way this can be interpreted is that if you were to walk in one direction it would go on infinitely however there is some form of "ceiling" to how high up you can go. When looking at this feat we are given three options
A) Accept only the first description that the chamber is infinite (Making this feat 3d infinite universal)
B) Accept the second description that it is planet sized (Making this feat planetary)
C) Accept an interpretation that reconciles these two like I stated (Making this feat infinite universal along the two dimensions that are boundless)

Option B can not be accepted. In the Buu saga three characters that were all far beyond planetary were trapped in the time chamber and could only escape by literally ripping dimensional hole in the room. If a planetary attack could have freed them Buu simply could have used one and Piccolo and Gotenks could have freed themselves the same way after Buu escaped. Along with this Piccolo (Arguably the best strategist in the DBZ universe) wouldn't have laid a trap with such an obvious solution. This means that C is the only acceptable low ball giving SSJ blue Vegeta multiple (somewhat) Infinite universal feats.
A guide book claims that Vegito is "Goku x Vegeta" meaning that the power increase would be incredible and multi-universal punches alone may be enough to handle Omnimon. Then there are ki attacks which we know are far stronger than just the punches and since SSJ blue Vegeta destroyed an infinite universe just by powering up I think the attack potency of a final Kamehameha would probably enough to blast through any of Omnimons Big Bang style attacks.
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Re: Vegito vs Omnimon

Postby guardianangel1911 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:11 am

The problem with the Beerus vs Goku shockwaves is, the only other time we see something similar is when two gods of destruction (Beerus and Champa) have a fight. There's also the issue of the shockwaves "getting stronger" the further away they get from the point of origin meaning they weren't universe busting at the point of origin, the weird shockwaves were just spreading so far they were reaching the point they could destroy the universe. Earth wasn't destroyed but planets further away were. The most likely reason for this is Hakai Energy Hax, which leaked out at a steadier less erratic pace when Beerus and Champa have their spat that causes a ring of destruction to start spreading around them that Whis and Vados say would eventually destroy both universes. There's also Toppo's ascension to god of Destruction's altering of the world of void when he goes all Hakai powered.

The Hakai Energy factor has thrown a new element into the Dragonball Mix which makes things very confused itself, Hakai is hax energy this much is clear and while it does increase native Ki power level to a point (most likely because of the process of converting Ki to god Ki) or at least seemed to increase Toppo's power beyond just him being able to no sell anything, it also seems to follow the Bleach logic of "if my numbers are big enough your hax can go suck a dick" as demonstrated by Vegeta in the most notable example, but Freeza as well with that chunk of lower powered Hakai he got hit with before the tournament. But it raises the question of how much of a god of Destructions power pure Ki/god Ki raw power and how much is Hakai hax power.

As for Goku's power level, he's clearly well beyond his Buu saga self that much is clear. And I probably wouldn't be averse to saying he probably can throw around enough power to bust a Galaxy perhaps at this point (end of Tournament of Power) ditto Vegeta, how that definitely translates into canon Vegito is a different question I suppose. Also on the Time Chamber was Vegeta actually destroying the dimension or basically doing a solo version of the Buu saga stuff minus screaming since he was unleashing enough power to just tear his way out basically. I ask more because I haven't seen anyone bring his blowing up the Time Chamber in debates, even hardcore Multiversal Goku debaters.
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Re: Vegito vs Omnimon

Postby ka-tet19 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:43 pm

guardianangel1911 wrote:The problem with the Beerus vs Goku shockwaves is, the only other time we see something similar is when two gods of destruction (Beerus and Champa) have a fight. There's also the issue of the shockwaves "getting stronger" the further away they get from the point of origin meaning they weren't universe busting at the point of origin, the weird shockwaves were just spreading so far they were reaching the point they could destroy the universe. Earth wasn't destroyed but planets further away were. The most likely reason for this is Hakai Energy Hax, which leaked out at a steadier less erratic pace when Beerus and Champa have their spat that causes a ring of destruction to start spreading around them that Whis and Vados say would eventually destroy both universes. There's also Toppo's ascension to god of Destruction's altering of the world of void when he goes all Hakai powered.

The Hakai Energy factor has thrown a new element into the Dragonball Mix which makes things very confused itself, Hakai is hax energy this much is clear and while it does increase native Ki power level to a point (most likely because of the process of converting Ki to god Ki) or at least seemed to increase Toppo's power beyond just him being able to no sell anything, it also seems to follow the Bleach logic of "if my numbers are big enough your hax can go suck a dick" as demonstrated by Vegeta in the most notable example, but Freeza as well with that chunk of lower powered Hakai he got hit with before the tournament. But it raises the question of how much of a god of Destructions power pure Ki/god Ki raw power and how much is Hakai hax power.

As for Goku's power level, he's clearly well beyond his Buu saga self that much is clear. And I probably wouldn't be averse to saying he probably can throw around enough power to bust a Galaxy perhaps at this point (end of Tournament of Power) ditto Vegeta, how that definitely translates into canon Vegito is a different question I suppose. Also on the Time Chamber was Vegeta actually destroying the dimension or basically doing a solo version of the Buu saga stuff minus screaming since he was unleashing enough power to just tear his way out basically. I ask more because I haven't seen anyone bring his blowing up the Time Chamber in debates, even hardcore Multiversal Goku debaters.

I don't remember there being any evidence of Beerus using Hakai? Whats the justification there? It was stated that the strikes were stopped because goku perfectly matched them so I don't think that can be attributed to Hakai. I know the traditional response is that the shockwaves can be thought of similarly to the waves of a tsunami, as they go along the waves get bigger and increase in destructive power but still are not as powerful as the energy that put them in motion in the first place meaning that his punches would still hold universal attack potency. As for the Vegeta feat no. He literally just powers up and blows the thing apart. He actually does it twice. they tell him once don't destroy the room again. So he immediately does it again lol feat for reference.
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