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Alucard vs Dante

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Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:31 pm

Just messaged you back.
Also how far after 1 is the anime supposed to be? I thought the time frame made a difference based on the rate of Dante's power increase. Since from 3 to 1 he got meh a decent amount stronger. Then in the short distance from 1-anime hed be demon God level in DT. And from anime to before 2 >>>>>>>>> demon god level in base. And what the actual fuck does that mean for the savior in the scaling. He seems to atleast give 4 Dante some trouble. So savior > Mundus? Then DMC 4 Nero > DMC 1 Dante? DMC 4 Nero > Mundus?!?!?!
Idk man. Shits tricky
And now with 5 the scale feels broken.

Beginning Dante > Beginning Nero
Urizen > Beginning Dantes

DSD base Dante > Urizen + Demon fruit (Which is what escalated Mundus to demon god level so thats a fuck you level of power up)

Then for whatever fucking reason

DSD = Vergil Reformed

DT nero >= fatigued Base Vergil (Low balling nero for the situation that makes the most sense.)

All of which means mundus is a bitch now. Even full power Sparda is a bitch now.
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Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:53 pm

I have no idea how far ahead the anime is after 1. But it's likely a decent while, considering 1 ends with Dante and Trish working together and by the time of the anime that isn't a thing anymore.
Regarding the Savior, I wouldn't put too much stock in that. The main problem that Dante had with the Savior was that Nero was stuck inside it. He was trying to free him. So I wouldn't really say we can scale the Savior to Dante. However powerful the Savior is, he's likely weaker than Sparda considering it's powered by Force edge and evil beings can't use that power properly.
As such, we still don't really fully know how strong DMC4 Nero is compared to the previous versions of Dante. For all we know he could very well just be as strong as DMC 3 Dante. I highly doubt he is as strong as Mundus, nothing really points to that.
Then for whatever fucking reason

DSD = Vergil Reformed

DT nero >= fatigued Base Vergil (Low balling nero for the situation that makes the most sense.)

All of which means mundus is a bitch now. Even full power Sparda is a bitch now.

Vergil is equal to Dante with the DSD because he went through a massive powerup. His demon half was constantly absorbing human blood from the Quilpoth tree and became strong enough to effortlessly deal with Dante. That was before he ate the Quilpoth fruit, and that in turn was before he fused with V and became whole again. So the recompleted Vergil now is a whole different beast from the one in the past. So him being equal to DSD isn't really weird.
Regarding Mundus, we only know one other person for a fact that's stronger than Mundus besides Sparda and Dante, and that's Vergil. As you said, Nero was only able to beat an exhausted base Vergil, so we can't really say if he can take on Mundus now or not. So I wouldn't say Mundus is a bitch at this point.
Same deal with Sparda. Additionally, DMC5 revealed to me that Sparda is apparently more powerful than I thought. The reports in the game reveal that apparently, Force Edge was not the only sword that Sparda sealed his power into; he split it among Rebellion and Yamato as well. Meaning that when Dante tapped into Force Edge in DMC1, he was not using Sparda's full power.
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Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:40 am

wingedlion wrote:I have no idea how far ahead the anime is after 1. But it's likely a decent while, considering 1 ends with Dante and Trish working together and by the time of the anime that isn't a thing anymore.
Regarding the Savior, I wouldn't put too much stock in that. The main problem that Dante had with the Savior was that Nero was stuck inside it. He was trying to free him. So I wouldn't really say we can scale the Savior to Dante. However powerful the Savior is, he's likely weaker than Sparda considering it's powered by Force edge and evil beings can't use that power properly.
As such, we still don't really fully know how strong DMC4 Nero is compared to the previous versions of Dante. For all we know he could very well just be as strong as DMC 3 Dante. I highly doubt he is as strong as Mundus, nothing really points to that.
Then for whatever fucking reason

DSD = Vergil Reformed

DT nero >= fatigued Base Vergil (Low balling nero for the situation that makes the most sense.)

All of which means mundus is a bitch now. Even full power Sparda is a bitch now.

Vergil is equal to Dante with the DSD because he went through a massive powerup. His demon half was constantly absorbing human blood from the Quilpoth tree and became strong enough to effortlessly deal with Dante. That was before he ate the Quilpoth fruit, and that in turn was before he fused with V and became whole again. So the recompleted Vergil now is a whole different beast from the one in the past. So him being equal to DSD isn't really weird.
Regarding Mundus, we only know one other person for a fact that's stronger than Mundus besides Sparda and Dante, and that's Vergil. As you said, Nero was only able to beat an exhausted base Vergil, so we can't really say if he can take on Mundus now or not. So I wouldn't say Mundus is a bitch at this point.
Same deal with Sparda. Additionally, DMC5 revealed to me that Sparda is apparently more powerful than I thought. The reports in the game reveal that apparently, Force Edge was not the only sword that Sparda sealed his power into; he split it among Rebellion and Yamato as well. Meaning that when Dante tapped into Force Edge in DMC1, he was not using Sparda's full power.

What I don't understand is why separating from V gets a buff and also fusing with V gives him a buff. Urizen only had a month with the quiloph max before attacking Dante. Vergil when we last saw him was weaker than DMC 1 Dante. So is a month of quiloph > the increase from DMC 1 - DMC 5? This seems impossible since even eating the fruit only made mundus..... well mundus level. And Vergil is so far beyond mundus level that his fatigue would have tl be enough to make him thousands of times weaker.
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Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:08 pm

Separating from V didn't give a buff, fusing with him did, since that made him whole again. The power that Urizen gained when he was separate from V resulted in a stronger Vergil.
There are two things that you need to consider regarding the differences between Mundus and Urizen.
1. Mundus got to the level he was by eating the fruit, but we have no idea what he was doing before then. We don't know if he was constantly absorbing human blood before eating the fruit.
2. Another thing that you need to consider is that we have no idea how powerful base Mundus is. The Mundus that we have been seeing this entire time is Demon King Mundus, the one that already ate the fruit. We don't know how powerful he originally was- it's quite possible that he wasn't that strong of a demon. As opposed to Urizen, who is the demon half of a Sparda twin and was already above most demons before powering himself up. Him eating the fruit would inevitably result in a demon much stronger than Mundus.
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Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:06 pm

wingedlion wrote:Separating from V didn't give a buff, fusing with him did, since that made him whole again. The power that Urizen gained when he was separate from V resulted in a stronger Vergil.
There are two things that you need to consider regarding the differences between Mundus and Urizen.
1. Mundus got to the level he was by eating the fruit, but we have no idea what he was doing before then. We don't know if he was constantly absorbing human blood before eating the fruit.
2. Another thing that you need to consider is that we have no idea how powerful base Mundus is. The Mundus that we have been seeing this entire time is Demon King Mundus, the one that already ate the fruit. We don't know how powerful he originally was- it's quite possible that he wasn't that strong of a demon. As opposed to Urizen, who is the demon half of a Sparda twin and was already above most demons before powering himself up. Him eating the fruit would inevitably result in a demon much stronger than Mundus.


My issues is that we know the fruit is a bigger power up than roots feeding Urizen blood. Consider the timeline, Nero gets his arm yeeted off on april 30th (Happy handicapable Nero day btw) Vergil Splits himself in 2 the next day, May 1st (lets just say for arguments sake he immediately started sucking up blood as soon as him and V split). We see Dante and Nero fight Urizen in the prologue mission on may 16th. Now scaling off Mundus: DMC 2 proves to be WAY beyond Mundus level in Base. After DMC 2 devil trigger gives him at least a 5x multiplier. Urizen literally one shots DT Dante who is at bare minimum (comically low balled) 5x stronger than Mundus. So that means that if Urizen didn't get a power boost from splitting with V after only 16 days of sucking blood Vergil would have gone from Nelo Angelo level (Whose about as strong as DMC 1 Dante) to way greater than 5x Mundus level.

The fruit kinda makes sense if it works as a multiplier and not an addition of power because again both brothers are just so far beyond Mundus at this point. If mundus were the strength of one of his general or Berial and the fruit is what elevated him to demon god tiers of power that would imply that DSD Dante is hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than he was at the beginning of the game because he could defeat post fruit Urizen in base. You could also assume that whatever multiplier applies to the fruit could also apply to Sin DT

It still doesn't make sense to me that Dying Urizen and Dying V fusing back together to make Vergil would be that much stronger. Even if V gives him a big enough boost to match Dante he still has the massive Sin DT buff he can now stack on top of that.
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Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:31 pm

My issues is that we know the fruit is a bigger power up than roots feeding Urizen blood. Consider the timeline, Nero gets his arm yeeted off on april 30th (Happy handicapable Nero day btw) Vergil Splits himself in 2 the next day, May 1st (lets just say for arguments sake he immediately started sucking up blood as soon as him and V split). We see Dante and Nero fight Urizen in the prologue mission on may 16th. Now scaling off Mundus: DMC 2 proves to be WAY beyond Mundus level in Base. After DMC 2 devil trigger gives him at least a 5x multiplier. Urizen literally one shots DT Dante who is at bare minimum (comically low balled) 5x stronger than Mundus. So that means that if Urizen didn't get a power boost from splitting with V after only 16 days of sucking blood Vergil would have gone from Nelo Angelo level (Whose about as strong as DMC 1 Dante) to way greater than 5x Mundus level.

Correct. Although, do you have proof that the boost that DT gives is 5x? I don't recall this at all. It doesn't matter much either way I suppose, but I don't recall any numbers for how much DT boosts Dante.
The fruit kinda makes sense if it works as a multiplier and not an addition of power because again both brothers are just so far beyond Mundus at this point. If mundus were the strength of one of his general or Berial and the fruit is what elevated him to demon god tiers of power that would imply that DSD Dante is hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than he was at the beginning of the game because he could defeat post fruit Urizen in base. You could also assume that whatever multiplier applies to the fruit could also apply to Sin DT

I'm confused here. Multiplier as opposed to an addition of power? What's the practical difference here? He's increasing his power massively either way. I'm not sure how either option makes more or less sense. The end result is basically the same.
Also, Base form? Dante explicitly needed SDT to beat Urizen. That was the whole basis of the turning point between their fight then compared to when they fought before.
In any case, how did you get Dante being hundreds of times stronger based on that? I'm not following that logic, to be honest, where did that come from?
It still doesn't make sense to me that Dying Urizen and Dying V fusing back together to make Vergil would be that much stronger. Even if V gives him a big enough boost to match Dante he still has the massive Sin DT buff he can now stack on top of that.

Vergil has SDT too though so that's not an advantage that's unique to Dante.
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Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:04 pm

wingedlion wrote:
My issues is that we know the fruit is a bigger power up than roots feeding Urizen blood. Consider the timeline, Nero gets his arm yeeted off on april 30th (Happy handicapable Nero day btw) Vergil Splits himself in 2 the next day, May 1st (lets just say for arguments sake he immediately started sucking up blood as soon as him and V split). We see Dante and Nero fight Urizen in the prologue mission on may 16th. Now scaling off Mundus: DMC 2 proves to be WAY beyond Mundus level in Base. After DMC 2 devil trigger gives him at least a 5x multiplier. Urizen literally one shots DT Dante who is at bare minimum (comically low balled) 5x stronger than Mundus. So that means that if Urizen didn't get a power boost from splitting with V after only 16 days of sucking blood Vergil would have gone from Nelo Angelo level (Whose about as strong as DMC 1 Dante) to way greater than 5x Mundus level.

Correct. Although, do you have proof that the boost that DT gives is 5x? I don't recall this at all. It doesn't matter much either way I suppose, but I don't recall any numbers for how much DT boosts Dante.
The fruit kinda makes sense if it works as a multiplier and not an addition of power because again both brothers are just so far beyond Mundus at this point. If mundus were the strength of one of his general or Berial and the fruit is what elevated him to demon god tiers of power that would imply that DSD Dante is hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than he was at the beginning of the game because he could defeat post fruit Urizen in base. You could also assume that whatever multiplier applies to the fruit could also apply to Sin DT

I'm confused here. Multiplier as opposed to an addition of power? What's the practical difference here? He's increasing his power massively either way. I'm not sure how either option makes more or less sense. The end result is basically the same.
Also, Base form? Dante explicitly needed SDT to beat Urizen. That was the whole basis of the turning point between their fight then compared to when they fought before.
In any case, how did you get Dante being hundreds of times stronger based on that? I'm not following that logic, to be honest, where did that come from?
It still doesn't make sense to me that Dying Urizen and Dying V fusing back together to make Vergil would be that much stronger. Even if V gives him a big enough boost to match Dante he still has the massive Sin DT buff he can now stack on top of that.

Vergil has SDT too though so that's not an advantage that's unique to Dante.


The dmc 2 guide states that DT with amulet hearts is a 10x multiplier and certain hearts state to double abilities meaning base DT is 5x at that point.

The difference between multiplier and addition matters because the base power of mundus is nothing at that point. Let's use arbitrary numbers for a second and say mundus is 100
Dmc 2 dante is over 500 I'm DT
DMC V DT dante is > 500
Urizen is WAYYYYYY stronger. Arbitrary number game let's say 1000 but only being twice as strong as dante is a wicked low ball.

If the fruit is a mundus multiplier and increases urizens power to 10,000 it makes sense a little but if it makes him 1100 it seems irrelevant.

Dantes base got a buff as massive as SDT when he unlocked it. In there second post fruit fight dante is never shown to go SDT and is actually shown defeating him in base.

Why vergil getting boosted doesnt make sense IMO is that we know the fruit powerup is less than the SDT. SDT was enough to cover the gap between Dante in the beginning of the game and urizen and the fruit powerup urizen recieved. So why did vergil get SDT?
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