FACTPILE IS BACK!!!
CLICK HERE TO SEE FOR YOURSELF
Take a Tour of the Admin's Mancave

Alucard vs Dante

This is where you will debate until the main site comes back online.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Authors

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:56 pm

If we assume that the power is also sealed into the sword (which if I'm understanding you we both now believe) couldn't it be possible that Arkham was gone before the power completely dissipated.

We see his form disappearing until there's nothing left but the sword. So that's not really possible.
Can you expand on this a little more? Its not like Mundus had power that was separate from himself?

Maybe the attack is doing two things at once but I'd have to point out that means your interpretation is adding an extra assumption. The attack would have to be doing both things separately at the same time which is something I don't think we've seen the series do before.

I wasn't saying Mundus's had power separate from himself. I was saying his powers got sealed, along with himself. At the beginning of DMC1, when convincing Dante to come with her, Trish notes that Mundus's powers had been sealed by Sparda.
https://youtu.be/5JzX602Z0cs?t=235
Trish: 20 years ago, Mundus, the emperor of the Underworld, resurrected.
Dante: Mundus?
Trish: Yes. His powers were sealed by Sparda. He's attempting to gain control of the Human world once again. He's preparing to open the gate on... Mallet Island.

Which makes sense considering that Mundus himself is capable of transferring from one dimension to another. We see this at the end of the game when he rips a portal open to face Dante. There would have had to be something stopping him from doing that all this time.
As we see with the portal to the human world, some of the portals have that weird tractor beam effect. This isn't the only was he could end up in a portal but its a possibility.

We know that that "tractor" effect does not work in reverse as Dante isn't getting sucked into the Hellgate despite just arriving from it. You can walk away from it or even towards it with no issue. So that's not really a thing.
The official strategy guide confirms Nevan is a vampire. In the weapons section it states "Nevan is the vampire demon goddess of the underworld....." can post scans if needed.

No need. Quotes should be fine(though could you tell me what page number it is?). That's actually pretty interesting.
Also, does that guide by chance happen to be online?
Last edited by wingedlion on Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wingedlion
Luminous Flesh Giant
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:46 pm

I'm about to go to bed so I'll reply to the rest tomorrow, but I have a pdf of the strategy guide I can send you if you'd like. I also have the ones for dmc1 and dmc2 if you want them for debating purposes (These are the only canon things that actually give us a multiplier for the stat amplification on devil trigger.)
whatever becomes has already happened before the after thought began at all
Image
User avatar
ka-tet19
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:56 pm

ka-tet19 wrote:I'm about to go to bed so I'll reply to the rest tomorrow, but I have a pdf of the strategy guide I can send you if you'd like. I also have the ones for dmc1 and dmc2 if you want them for debating purposes (These are the only canon things that actually give us a multiplier for the stat amplification on devil trigger.)

That would be nice if it's not too much trouble. Thanks.
wingedlion
Luminous Flesh Giant
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:43 pm

wingedlion wrote:
ka-tet19 wrote:I'm about to go to bed so I'll reply to the rest tomorrow, but I have a pdf of the strategy guide I can send you if you'd like. I also have the ones for dmc1 and dmc2 if you want them for debating purposes (These are the only canon things that actually give us a multiplier for the stat amplification on devil trigger.)

That would be nice if it's not too much trouble. Thanks.

I got you bro. Also wouldn't Mundus being sealed imply that his powers are also sealed? Considering that he can dimension hop he wouldn't be "sealed" if he could come back he would have simply been teleported.
whatever becomes has already happened before the after thought began at all
Image
User avatar
ka-tet19
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:00 pm

ka-tet19 wrote:
wingedlion wrote:
ka-tet19 wrote:I'm about to go to bed so I'll reply to the rest tomorrow, but I have a pdf of the strategy guide I can send you if you'd like. I also have the ones for dmc1 and dmc2 if you want them for debating purposes (These are the only canon things that actually give us a multiplier for the stat amplification on devil trigger.)

That would be nice if it's not too much trouble. Thanks.

I got you bro. Also wouldn't Mundus being sealed imply that his powers are also sealed? Considering that he can dimension hop he wouldn't be "sealed" if he could come back he would have simply been teleported.

Thanks.
Well that's kind of my point. The seal would have had to lock Mundus's power as well, otherwise he could have just easily come back to earth.
wingedlion
Luminous Flesh Giant
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:06 pm

Well I think stopping someone from being able to return is part of the seal. We know it didn't leave mundus powerless because in hell he still had powers since he was still ruler of the underworld (Excluding whatever brief period of time argosax took the throne from him). Part of the hax is not allowing him to return. Think of it as analogous to locking a door. The example of how Kurama was sealed in naruto comes to mind. He has power he just could not leave where he was to do anything with it. Also I messaged you about the pdf files check your inbox.
whatever becomes has already happened before the after thought began at all
Image
User avatar
ka-tet19
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:49 am

ka-tet19 wrote:Well I think stopping someone from being able to return is part of the seal. We know it didn't leave mundus powerless because in hell he still had powers since he was still ruler of the underworld (Excluding whatever brief period of time argosax took the throne from him). Part of the hax is not allowing him to return. Think of it as analogous to locking a door. The example of how Kurama was sealed in naruto comes to mind. He has power he just could not leave where he was to do anything with it. Also I messaged you about the pdf files check your inbox.

Actually, Berial's description in DMC4's artbook states that because Mundus was once again sealed, he was forced to take on the task of ruling the underworld alone as his heir:
The Art of Devil May Cry 4 (2008), pp. 33, Berial wrote:"Wrapped in flames, the Demon Berial was born and raised in The Underworld, a land known for its barbarity. As prince to the Demon Emperor, who has been sealed away, Berial faced ruling The Underworld alone.

So being sealed actually does take him out of commission as ruler of the Underworld. Which fits well with him being powerless, which Trish already confirmed.
wingedlion
Luminous Flesh Giant
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:29 am

No it's specified somewhere that Berial is ruling after Dante seals him. Sparda sealed him the underworld. Dante just sends him to who the hell knows where lol
whatever becomes has already happened before the after thought began at all
Image
User avatar
ka-tet19
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby wingedlion » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:31 am

ka-tet19 wrote:No it's specified somewhere that Berial is ruling after Dante seals him. Sparda sealed him the underworld. Dante just sends him to who the hell knows where lol

Proof, please? Cause this is the first I'm hearing of this. The only dimensions mentioned in DMC are Earth and Hell(maybe Heaven too based on the implications of the Fallen's description). I've never heard of some other mystery dimension we've never seen or heard of before. Meanwhile, as it stands we already have evidence that outright indicates that Mundus is powerless. Trish specifically said so to Dante.
Hell, him being powerless makes more sense because if he wasn't, how did Argosax take control? Sure, you could argue that Argosax is stronger than Mundus, except:
1. Then why didn't he take control of hell in the first place if he was already so strong?
2. How did Mundus gain back control over it?
None of these really make any sense unless his powers were locked by Sparda when he was sealed. It would explain why Argosax decided to take control of the demon world centuries ago instead of several millennia ago(the only demon stronger than him was gone).
wingedlion
Luminous Flesh Giant
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Alucard vs Dante

Postby ka-tet19 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:45 pm

wingedlion wrote:
ka-tet19 wrote:No it's specified somewhere that Berial is ruling after Dante seals him. Sparda sealed him the underworld. Dante just sends him to who the hell knows where lol

Proof, please? Cause this is the first I'm hearing of this. The only dimensions mentioned in DMC are Earth and Hell(maybe Heaven too based on the implications of the Fallen's description). I've never heard of some other mystery dimension we've never seen or heard of before. Meanwhile, as it stands we already have evidence that outright indicates that Mundus is powerless. Trish specifically said so to Dante.
Hell, him being powerless makes more sense because if he wasn't, how did Argosax take control? Sure, you could argue that Argosax is stronger than Mundus, except:
1. Then why didn't he take control of hell in the first place if he was already so strong?
2. How did Mundus gain back control over it?
None of these really make any sense unless his powers were locked by Sparda when he was sealed. It would explain why Argosax decided to take control of the demon world centuries ago instead of several millennia ago(the only demon stronger than him was gone).

Honestly I don't remember I just was working on a video for a DMC powerscale recently and remembered it being brought up. But Mundus is still in hell because of the DMC 3 Vergil ending. Also he can still control minions and send them to the human world because we know he sent demons to kill Eva. Argosax is stronger than Mundus. The details of his creation are not explored but its said that he arrived in the demon world and then took over. So he wasn't around the entire time Mundus was around. Argosax was then sealed by Sparda who needed the help of Matier and her entire clan of Demon/Human Hybrids to seal him and had to use four magical relics to seal him. Argosax wasn't given many feats (That game is lacking in cutscenes) but in terms of pure scaling hes way stronger than Mundus. The TL;DR version of this argument is Sparda needed an entire clan of half demons to defeat argosax and more complicated sealing magic, but low difs not only Mundus but his entire army and seals them on the spot.
whatever becomes has already happened before the after thought began at all
Image
User avatar
ka-tet19
Ready For Action
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:47 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Factpile Debates

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron