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Hunt the...Shirou?

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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Alpha or Omega » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:04 pm

Dante never went into space, so I have no idea where you're getting stars from. He's not FTL by any means. The lightning demon was out of lightning form when he tried to attack Dante. It's DMC 4 Dante.

Advent Children Sephiroth didn't do any planetary TK thing. He dropped an upper portion of a building and may or may not have caused the storm.

The Chosen Undead isn't small town level. He never gets stepped on by massive beings. The Ceaseless Discharge only uses his tendrlls against him.

Respect threads I'm getting for Shirou isn't anywhere near mountain level.
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Friendlysociopath » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:52 pm

Alpha or Omega wrote:Dante never went into space, so I have no idea where you're getting stars from. He's not FTL by any means. The lightning demon was out of lightning form when he tried to attack Dante. It's DMC 4 Dante.

Advent Children Sephiroth didn't do any planetary TK thing. He dropped an upper portion of a building and may or may not have caused the storm.

The Chosen Undead isn't small town level. He never gets stepped on by massive beings. The Ceaseless Discharge only uses his tendrlls against him.

Respect threads I'm getting for Shirou isn't anywhere near mountain level.


Sephiroth does cause the storm, he raises his hand and clenches it to form the darkness.

His mountain-level Shirou stems from scaling to Berserker supposedly striking with the strength to destroy a mountain. Course, earlier Shirou insisted Berserker would only destroy a house so either Berserker was holding back or he was buffed when he fought Shirou. Neither option adds up very well so the more likely approach is it was hyperbole- especially since "mountain" can be anything from 100 feet to Everest
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Polloloko » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:52 am

Advent Children Sephiroth didn't do any planetary TK thing. He dropped an upper portion of a building and may or may not have caused the storm.


Like Friendly said, Sephiroth did cause the weather to change in the movie by just waving his hand.

Dante never went into space, so I have no idea where you're getting stars from. He's not FTL by any means. The lightning demon was out of lightning form when he tried to attack Dante. It's DMC 4 Dante.


Dante was summoned into space to battle Mundus in DMC1, after the battle he is summon back to Mundus's castle, in DMC4 after the Lighting boss fight, the cutscene makes it clear that in the off screen ( Gameplay ) battle that lighting demon was indeed using everything he have to kill Dante ( Covering himself in lighting ) and in the cuttscene Dante just....easly kill him.

His mountain-level Shirou stems from scaling to Berserker supposedly striking with the strength to destroy a mountain. Course, earlier Shirou insisted Berserker would only destroy a house so either Berserker was holding back or he was buffed when he fought Shirou.


Heaven's Feel was the last route of Fate Nasu did, so making Berserker more powerfull than he seems in the other routes might be the case, the mountain dc was stated by tje author in Heaven's Feel, not Shirou's POV, making it more legit than a POV statement.
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Friendlysociopath » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:04 am

Polloloko wrote:
Advent Children Sephiroth didn't do any planetary TK thing. He dropped an upper portion of a building and may or may not have caused the storm.


Like Friendly said, Sephiroth did cause the weather to change in the movie by just waving his hand.


And like Friendly has also said before- this means nothing in terms of power.
Especially when to a degree there's also the 'negative lifestream' being what he's calling too- not just storm. That's what those dark streamers are that reach towards the Mako reactors- negative lifestream. Sephiroth is basically pitting himself against the planet while at the same time fighting Cloud, again (I've pointed out several times that Cloud never gets a true 1v1 with Sephiroth- I repeat it because it's true). The script actually specifies that Cloud at one point in the battle gains hope from seeing the normal lifestream (which is why we see Aerith praying in that slight cut) fighting off the dark lifestream while he's battling Sephiroth.
Sephiroth has basically never lost a true 1v1 in Final Fantasy VII. The developers have made it abundantly clear the dude is PIS incarnate in that every battle he has some plot-reason to lose or not give it his all. Granted, we still have to use this Sephiroth as we have no idea how he would fight without said PIS.


Polloloko wrote:
Dante never went into space, so I have no idea where you're getting stars from. He's not FTL by any means. The lightning demon was out of lightning form when he tried to attack Dante. It's DMC 4 Dante.


Dante was summoned into space to battle Mundus in DMC1, after the battle he is summon back to Mundus's castle, in DMC4 after the Lighting boss fight, the cutscene makes it clear that in the off screen ( Gameplay ) battle that lighting demon was indeed using everything he have to kill Dante ( Covering himself in lighting ) and in the cuttscene Dante just....easly kill him.


Except Dante literally can't hit Blitz when he's in his lightning-form when you look at gameplay.
Also this relies on the idea that Mundus must be faster than all demons under his command which is backed by... nothing. I blame Dragonball Z for this becoming standard-practice in vsdebating. There's no inherent reason a boss must be stronger, faster, and generally superior in every way to his servants.


Polloloko wrote:
His mountain-level Shirou stems from scaling to Berserker supposedly striking with the strength to destroy a mountain. Course, earlier Shirou insisted Berserker would only destroy a house so either Berserker was holding back or he was buffed when he fought Shirou.


Heaven's Feel was the last route of Fate Nasu did, so making Berserker more powerfull than he seems in the other routes might be the case, the mountain dc was stated by tje author in Heaven's Feel, not Shirou's POV, making it more legit than a POV statement.


Exactly how can you tell the difference between Shirou's POV and narration? Or anyone's POV and narration? It's usually suggested you can tell the difference but I'm unsure how given that the two can go between one another with practically no warning.
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Alpha or Omega » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:14 am

Polloloko wrote:Like Friendly said, Sephiroth did cause the weather to change in the movie by just waving his hand.

Was that in response to the planetary TK or response about the weather?
Creating a change in weather is nowhere near planetary.

Polloloko wrote:Dante was summoned into space to battle Mundus in DMC1, after the battle he is summon back to Mundus's castle, in DMC4 after the Lighting boss fight, the cutscene makes it clear that in the off screen ( Gameplay ) battle that lighting demon was indeed using everything he have to kill Dante ( Covering himself in lighting ) and in the cuttscene Dante just....easly kill him.

Yet, Dante and Mundus battle somewhere where there's clouds and lightning.

The cutscene also shows Dante missing the lighting demon when said demon turns into lightning.
This is assuming it's real lightning in the first place.
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Kitten Lord » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:59 am

Concerning Chosen undead and Ceaseless discharge (what a great name...)

Spoiler
The Chosen undead does not really have to fight it, its possible to kill it quite easily by having it fall down a pit. Its physical capabilities are fairly unknown.


Also the logic for Dante being used by Polloko is essentially the VS battles presumptions. That Dante and Mundus were flying around at speeds in space and what not, I do not think there is any official standing on that scene and its up for interpretation but as Alpha points out, there are reasons to think its not space. Personally I thought it was just some sort of illusionary space. Notice how when Dante is knocked out of the air he just falls atop some sort of volcano, so alongside the clouds at best maybe their in the upper atmosphere but none of it looks right to me.

Dantes speed is generally cleanly set at around supersonic+
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Friendlysociopath » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:25 pm

Kitten Lord wrote:Concerning Chosen undead and Ceaseless discharge (what a great name...)

Spoiler
The Chosen undead does not really have to fight it, its possible to kill it quite easily by having it fall down a pit. Its physical capabilities are fairly unknown.


Also the logic for Dante being used by Polloko is essentially the VS battles presumptions. That Dante and Mundus were flying around at speeds in space and what not, I do not think there is any official standing on that scene and its up for interpretation but as Alpha points out, there are reasons to think its not space. Personally I thought it was just some sort of illusionary space. Notice how when Dante is knocked out of the air he just falls atop some sort of volcano, so alongside the clouds at best maybe their in the upper atmosphere but none of it looks right to me.

Dantes speed is generally cleanly set at around supersonic+


At least they ditched the "universe" Mundus and Dante given that the developer in question only said it after apparently months, if not years, of being harassed by fans trying to trick him into saying it. Always felt a bit sad about that.
Edit: Felt bad about the years of harassment, not the universal Mundus/Dante loss.
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Polloloko » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:51 pm

And like Friendly has also said before- this means nothing in terms of power.
Especially when to a degree there's also the 'negative lifestream' being what he's calling too- not just storm. That's what those dark streamers are that reach towards the Mako reactors- negative lifestream. Sephiroth is basically pitting himself against the planet while at the same time fighting Cloud, again (I've pointed out several times that Cloud never gets a true 1v1 with Sephiroth- I repeat it because it's true). The script actually specifies that Cloud at one point in the battle gains hope from seeing the normal lifestream (which is why we see Aerith praying in that slight cut) fighting off the dark lifestream while he's battling Sephiroth.
Sephiroth has basically never lost a true 1v1 in Final Fantasy VII. The developers have made it abundantly clear the dude is PIS incarnate in that every battle he has some plot-reason to lose or not give it his all. Granted, we still have to use this Sephiroth as we have no idea how he would fight without said PIS.


Ok.....I didnt ask for this but I dig it.

Except Dante literally can't hit Blitz when he's in his lightning-form when you look at gameplay.

+
The cutscene also shows Dante missing the lighting demon when said demon turns into lightning.
This is assuming it's real lightning in the first place.


Maybe you're right, but in the boss battle you can dodge lighting that comes out of the sky by the demon, dodging real lighting will means Massive Hypersonic speed ( Mach: 100,000 )

Exactly how can you tell the difference between Shirou's POV and narration? Or anyone's POV and narration? It's usually suggested you can tell the difference but I'm unsure how given that the two can go between one another with practically no warning.


Simple, the Author tells the story and Shirou's POV its what he sees and thinks about it, the words of the one telling the story is more legit.

Dantes speed is generally cleanly set at around supersonic+


Not quite, thats you're opinion.

Dante have shown to be Hypersonic ( or High Hypersonic ) in DMC3 by throwing his sword hard enough it catches fire as he runs that fast also cought on fire whilehe grabs his sword

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_bl ... Sword_Drop

DMC3 Dante should also have Massively Hypersonic+ Combat Speed and Reactions due Blocking and kept up with Nevan and her lightning, which was coming straight from the bottom = https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mcdxGhfcubc

After DMC3, Dante should be faster and more powerfull than his younger self.

Creating a change in weather is nowhere near planetary.


You're right, what I meant was that he changed the weather on a planetary scale.

Yet, Dante and Mundus battle somewhere where there's clouds and lightning.


Wait a minute.....holy dam, you're right.....FUCK! Nah just kidding ( a bit ), It would have been Mundus reality warping around the place fighting Dante, but, were Dante & Mundus were fighting, not only were clouds in there, but stars as well, and Dante was flying through them very fast, I have proof of the creator of DMC stating that Mundus created stars
Image

So Dante flying pass the stars making them look like rays of light, could be two things, FTL or Revalistic in the end of DMC1.
-
Dante in DMC2 were he is more experience and more serious and who can speed blitz the final boosted demon boss in base, should be faster and more powerfull than before...Wait!?!?...*remembers op"..shit, in this match is DMC4 Dante, I forgot sorry, in that time Dante should be a bit better than in DMC1 due DMC1 bieng before DMC Anime that its before DMC4.

Can Dante use his Styles & Devil Arms inthis match?

Anyway, question, are the FF characters really Solar Sistem Level with FTL? or is it that they scale to there FF7 game adventures due there Materia & Limit Breaks? Cuz I do belive they are very powerfull ( Near OP ), but I dont know, what do you guys think?
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby Friendlysociopath » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:46 pm

Polloloko wrote:
Exactly how can you tell the difference between Shirou's POV and narration? Or anyone's POV and narration? It's usually suggested you can tell the difference but I'm unsure how given that the two can go between one another with practically no warning.


Simple, the Author tells the story and Shirou's POV its what he sees and thinks about it, the words of the one telling the story is more legit.


Yes, how can you tell the difference between when Shirou's thinking and the Author is narrating? Thoughts don't have quotation marks like speech.


Polloloko wrote:
Dantes speed is generally cleanly set at around supersonic+


Not quite, thats you're opinion.


Well no, some of his weapons like Beowulf mention with their help Dante can deliver a supersonic attack- which would be pointless if he was faster than that already.


Polloloko wrote:
Creating a change in weather is nowhere near planetary.


You're right, what I meant was that he changed the weather on a planetary scale.


Er, we have no indication of that. We only ever see him in Midgar- we don't see the planet.


Polloloko wrote:
Yet, Dante and Mundus battle somewhere where there's clouds and lightning.


Wait a minute.....holy dam, you're right.....FUCK! Nah just kidding ( a bit ), It would have been Mundus reality warping around the place fighting Dante, but, were Dante & Mundus were fighting, not only were clouds in there, but stars as well, and Dante was flying through them very fast, I have proof of the creator of DMC stating that Mundus created stars
Image


No, you don't. You have a twitter response (which is not any sort of official WoG as it's not an official Q&A or anything of the sort) and context involves fans routinely asking him this for years and him yelling at them for never leaving him alone about it even if he told them they were wrong. Vsbattles has an entire thread dedicated to why this isn't a thing- it's what Dante and Mundus aren't listed as universal anymore on there.


Polloloko wrote:Can Dante use his Styles & Devil Arms inthis match?


Styles and weapons from 4 sure- whether his powers from other previous titles transfer over is subject to debate.


Polloloko wrote:Anyway, question, are the FF characters really Solar Sistem Level with FTL? or is it that they scale to there FF7 game adventures due there Materia & Limit Breaks? Cuz I do belive they are very powerfull ( Near OP ), but I dont know, what do you guys think?


No. The two claims to SS-level are Sephiroth's Supernova and Knights of the Round. The claims for both are terrible as Sephiroth's attack blows up the sun and the blast very firmly stops when approaching 'Earth' so it doesn't level the solar system. Plus the cast don't withstand the whole blast as it's an explosion- energy goes literally in all directions. It's not farfetched to say they didn't even experience 1/1,000,000th of the total energy a star going nova would be.

FTL has pretty much no actual showing to speak of. The only example I know of for this is in Crisis Core where Bahamut Fury's description states it flies from a far planet to beat up whatever it's fighting. Which means nothing since the summoned monsters fight people in their own dimensions and distance, time, etc don't add up. Not to mention it's based on the idea that if it flies at many times FTL- it blasts and attacks at the same speed.
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Re: Hunt the...Shirou?

Postby wingedlion » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:23 am

Freindlysociopath wrote:Exactly how can you tell the difference between Shirou's POV and narration? Or anyone's POV and narration? It's usually suggested you can tell the difference but I'm unsure how given that the two can go between one another with practically no warning.

For one, by looking at who's watching the scene. First-person narrators can't narrate what they can't see- if the scene that is being discussed does not include Shirou then the narration is third-person. Not to mention anytime Shirou is talking there is bound to be personal references such as "I" or "my" throughout his thoughts, such as "I feel a steel rod in my back" or "I'm going to be a superhero". Third person narration doesn't do that.
Additionally Fate distinguishes their change in narration through scene breaks- it'll never suddenly switch narration perspective in the middle of a scene. So it switching without warning isn't really true.
That being said, I don't recall the scene Polloko's talking about being narrated by third person.
Freindlysociopath wrote:the developer in question only said it after apparently months, if not years, of being harassed by fans trying to trick him into saying it

Really?
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