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Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby wingedlion » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:43 am

Friendlysociopath wrote:
wingedlion wrote:Well if their precognition cancels each other out, Anakin would have to deal with an invisible weapon.
Freindlysociopath wrote: It requires a very specific stance to use

Not really?
It requires two hands to use- but that's about it.


Could've sworn Saber at one point gets a single messed up finger and it vastly degrades the attack, also I recall something about footing I think, though I will admit it's been a while since I looked at that particular part.

Well yeah, again she needs two hands to use it. That's why it was unavailable for half of Zero- because he wounded one of her hands with Gae Budhe (it inflicts unhealable wounds).
That has nothing to do with her stance though, and there was nothing about footing affecting it.
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby Friendlysociopath » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:57 am

wingedlion wrote:Well yeah, again she needs two hands to use it. That's why it was unavailable for half of Zero- because he wounded one of her hands with Gae Budhe (it inflicts unhealable wounds).
That has nothing to do with her stance though, and there was nothing about footing affecting it.


Coulda sworn I read somewhere that she requires specific footing as well, along with a 1 second casting time.
Also IIRC she does it herself at one point to recreate the injury and lessen the ability for honor purposes, the Gau Budhe was just gravy.


Well if their precognition cancels each other out, Anakin would have to deal with an invisible weapon.


Precog more as in judging attacks and actions before they happen. Anakin's Force precog doesn't depend on vision (one of the few points Star Wars is very clear on regarding Force precog) so it would allow him to see through Invisible Air by its own description.
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby wingedlion » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:17 am

Freindlysociopath wrote:Coulda sworn I read somewhere that she requires specific footing as well, along with a 1 second casting time

Her wound could not be healed. The curse of the golden spear most likely would not be dispelled until the spear itself was destroyed, or its owner Diarmuid had fallen. She had to break through Lancer’s twin spears with her remaining right hand. With the aid of prana bursts, single-handedly wielding her sword would not be too painful. But the strength that could only be delivered with both hands was now sealed, and she could not use her ultimate attack: Excalibur • Sword of Promised Victory.

Freindlysociopath wrote:Also IIRC she does it herself at one point to recreate the injury and lessen the ability for honor purposes, the Gau Budhe was just gravy.

I'm aware. Was just mentioning why her healing did not take care of it.
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby Friendlysociopath » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:09 am

Speaking of mentions- Fate/stay ever mention anything about heat and whatnot? Like if being tossed in lava will hurt a Servant or not?
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby Polloloko » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:22 pm

Ok, lets make it evenly ground as Phisically only for both of them.

Go.
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby Friendlysociopath » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:19 pm

Polloloko wrote:Ok, lets make it evenly ground as Phisically only for both of them.

Go.


Aight, first things first, stop the 'go' stuff. Whether you mean it in such a way or not- it's very off-putting.

Next up, does that buff Anakin up to Saber's level or lower her to his?

Lastly, @Winged and Polloloko
If a Saber animation were to be made, how tied are you to the "invisible blade" idea? Because it's seriously a pain in the ass to animate that and I'm curious how 'core' that's considered to her character.
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby wingedlion » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:09 pm

Friendlysociopath wrote:Speaking of mentions- Fate/stay ever mention anything about heat and whatnot? Like if being tossed in lava will hurt a Servant or not?

Durability wise- not that I know of. Honestly servants don't have too many durability feats that I recall- the only ones I recall them really showing were a few blunt force ones.
That being said, something that just hit me- Anakin can't hurt ghosts right? If so, he wouldn't actually be able to harm Saber.
Freindlysociopath wrote:If a Saber animation were to be made, how tied are you to the "invisible blade" idea? Because it's seriously a pain in the ass to animate that and I'm curious how 'core' that's considered to her character.

Well there are several purposes to Invisible air.
Yeah it makes her weapon invisible, which is always an advantage. In addition however it also increases the cutting power due to the swirling winds surrounding it.
Most importantly though, at least in terms of character like you asked- it's the one thing that conceals Excalibur's true form. If it wasn't for Invisible air, literally anyone who looked at her sword would go "oh hey, that's King Arthur".
That being said, is wind animation that hard?
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby Friendlysociopath » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:33 pm

wingedlion wrote:
Friendlysociopath wrote:Speaking of mentions- Fate/stay ever mention anything about heat and whatnot? Like if being tossed in lava will hurt a Servant or not?

Durability wise- not that I know of. Honestly servants don't have too many durability feats that I recall- the only ones I recall them really showing were a few blunt force ones.
That being said, something that just hit me- Anakin can't hurt ghosts right? If so, he wouldn't actually be able to harm Saber.


I'm not sure what Anakin not being able to hurt ghosts is based on but Saber pretty routinely takes a physical form and doesn't do the sort of ethereal thing other Servants do.


wingedlion wrote:
Freindlysociopath wrote:If a Saber animation were to be made, how tied are you to the "invisible blade" idea? Because it's seriously a pain in the ass to animate that and I'm curious how 'core' that's considered to her character.

Well there are several purposes to Invisible air.
Yeah it makes her weapon invisible, which is always an advantage. In addition however it also increases the cutting power due to the swirling winds surrounding it.
Most importantly though, at least in terms of character like you asked- it's the one thing that conceals Excalibur's true form. If it wasn't for Invisible air, literally anyone who looked at her sword would go "oh hey, that's King Arthur".
That being said, is wind animation that hard?


In a somewhat simplified explanation, it doubles the amount of work Saber requires as she's then two parts, herself and the sword particle, in comparison to most characters where it's just one part that includes both them and their weapon.

However, and this is more theorycrafting but, would Saber keep it up if an opponent already knew who she was/gained no benefit from knowing who she is/announced who they were and what their weapon is? I know she's big on 'fair fights' and by far Invisible Air seems like a cheap move that I would imagine she only uses because otherwise she's screwed for the Grail Wars.
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby wingedlion » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:09 am

Freindlysociopath wrote:I'm not sure what Anakin not being able to hurt ghosts is based on but Saber pretty routinely takes a physical form and doesn't do the sort of ethereal thing other Servants do.

Anakin not being able to hurt ghosts is based on, well, Anakin never hurting ghosts before. Unless there's evidence to the contrary?
As I explained before, Servant's immunity to conventional weapons is not reliant solely on their ethereal forms. Both of their forms are naturally immune to non-magical means.
Freindlysociopath wrote:In a somewhat simplified explanation, it doubles the amount of work Saber requires as she's then two parts, herself and the sword particle, in comparison to most characters where it's just one part that includes both them and their weapon.

I see.
Freindlysociopath wrote:However, and this is more theorycrafting but, would Saber keep it up if an opponent already knew who she was/gained no benefit from knowing who she is/announced who they were and what their weapon is? I know she's big on 'fair fights' and by far Invisible Air seems like a cheap move that I would imagine she only uses because otherwise she's screwed for the Grail Wars.

I mean, when Artoria revealed Excalibur to Gil before, she still kept IA on whenever she was simply in melee. Even when Kojirou figured out the length of the sword, she still didn't relinquish it.
Artoria is big on fair fights, but that doesn't mean she'll give up her advantages just for the sake of one. What that means is that she won't rely on underhanded tactics to achieve victory. For example, acting like an Assassin and going after the masters. She prefers to fight the servants head on.
It's why she always at odds with her Master Kiritsugu in Zero. Kiritsugu was all about lying, cheating and deceiving others to win, no matter what. He usually avoids frontal confrontation if at all possible and prefers to take them out indirectly or sneakily. He and Artoria are basically polar opposites.
Not to mention that even if the opponent figures out what she is wielding, she still gains a damage boost from IA due to it making the sword sharper. Essentially there's no reason for Artoria to relinquish IA unless she is using her Noble Phantasm.
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Re: Saber VS. Anakin Skywalker.

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:22 am

wingedlion wrote:
Freindlysociopath wrote:I'm not sure what Anakin not being able to hurt ghosts is based on but Saber pretty routinely takes a physical form and doesn't do the sort of ethereal thing other Servants do.

Anakin not being able to hurt ghosts is based on, well, Anakin never hurting ghosts before. Unless there's evidence to the contrary?
As I explained before, Servant's immunity to conventional weapons is not reliant solely on their ethereal forms. Both of their forms are naturally immune to non-magical means.


True, but the Force is pseudo-magic and basically infuses Anakin and everything else in Star Wars, or the thing that uses them (Midichlorians) is in everyone and everything. I never did understand how that worked. So either the Force isn't magic or in a somewhat odd fashion, everything in Star Wars is somewhat magic.


wingedlion wrote:
Freindlysociopath wrote:In a somewhat simplified explanation, it doubles the amount of work Saber requires as she's then two parts, herself and the sword particle, in comparison to most characters where it's just one part that includes both them and their weapon.

I see.


To elaborate, I would have to make sure the sword effect was following Saber's hands and attacks and in the correct spot, for every frame, ever.


wingedlion wrote:
Freindlysociopath wrote:However, and this is more theorycrafting but, would Saber keep it up if an opponent already knew who she was/gained no benefit from knowing who she is/announced who they were and what their weapon is? I know she's big on 'fair fights' and by far Invisible Air seems like a cheap move that I would imagine she only uses because otherwise she's screwed for the Grail Wars.

I mean, when Artoria revealed Excalibur to Gil before, she still kept IA on whenever she was simply in melee. Even when Kojirou figured out the length of the sword, she still didn't relinquish it.
Artoria is big on fair fights, but that doesn't mean she'll give up her advantages just for the sake of one. What that means is that she won't rely on underhanded tactics to achieve victory. For example, acting like an Assassin and going after the masters. She prefers to fight the servants head on.
It's why she always at odds with her Master Kiritsugu in Zero. Kiritsugu was all about lying, cheating and deceiving others to win, no matter what. He usually avoids frontal confrontation if at all possible and prefers to take them out indirectly or sneakily. He and Artoria are basically polar opposites.
Not to mention that even if the opponent figures out what she is wielding, she still gains a damage boost from IA due to it making the sword sharper. Essentially there's no reason for Artoria to relinquish IA unless she is using her Noble Phantasm.


Hrm, doesn't she have a move where she expels it in a blast or something?
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