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The Great Shonen War

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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:37 pm

Various shades of hax vs power aside- why does Ichigo scale from Kenpachi?
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby AOTUA » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:06 pm

Friendlysociopath wrote:Various shades of hax vs power aside- why does Ichigo scale from Kenpachi?

Originally I was scaling them because Ichigo managed to match Kenpachi before Ichigo even had access to his bankai. I think that's still valid, but there's also the fact that Ichigo was declared the most dangerous of the Special War Powers/Potentials - which also included Kenpachi, Aizen, Urahara, and Ichibe. [ http://www2.mymangalist.org/chapter-bleach-582-8 ]
And, among the Special War Powers/Potentials, Kenpachi's power was was "overestimated" [ http://www2.mymangalist.org/chapter-bleach-505-17 ]
I'd say that's enough to consider them "scalable", yes?
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:10 pm

AOTUA wrote:
Friendlysociopath wrote:Various shades of hax vs power aside- why does Ichigo scale from Kenpachi?

Originally I was scaling them because Ichigo managed to match Kenpachi before Ichigo even had access to his bankai. I think that's still valid, but there's also the fact that Ichigo was declared the most dangerous of the Special War Powers/Potentials - which also included Kenpachi, Aizen, Urahara, and Ichibe. [ http://www2.mymangalist.org/chapter-bleach-582-8 ]
And, among the Special War Powers/Potentials, Kenpachi's power was was "overestimated" [ http://www2.mymangalist.org/chapter-bleach-505-17 ]
I'd say that's enough to consider them "scalable", yes?


Makes sense so far as theories go. Ichigo has no hax beyond making a big effing sword and all Kenpachi offers is power. The end result is the only way he can be the most dangerous would be in terms of power... unless they mean how quickly Ichigo can advance his power- which technically isn't quite the same thing.

Found this fun scan though
[ http://www2.mymangalist.org/chapter-bleach-507-11 ]
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby AOTUA » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:19 pm

Friendlysociopath wrote:Makes sense so far as theories go. Ichigo has no hax beyond making a big effing sword and all Kenpachi offers is power. The end result is the only way he can be the most dangerous would be in terms of power... unless they mean how quickly Ichigo can advance his power- which technically isn't quite the same thing.

That... could be true. But wouldn't it still technically end with Ichigo being stronger than Kenpachi? Ichigo had, what, like 4 powerups or so since he fought Kenpachi? If his growth rate was what made him more dangerous, wouldn't he already be above Kenpachi? Like if Ichigo + No powerups = base Kenpachi then Ichigo + 1 powerup = >base Kenpachi, right? That's my attempt to save the theory, anyway. Hadn't thought of the growth rate thing as possible.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:33 pm

AOTUA wrote:
Friendlysociopath wrote:Makes sense so far as theories go. Ichigo has no hax beyond making a big effing sword and all Kenpachi offers is power. The end result is the only way he can be the most dangerous would be in terms of power... unless they mean how quickly Ichigo can advance his power- which technically isn't quite the same thing.

That... could be true. But wouldn't it still technically end with Ichigo being stronger than Kenpachi? Ichigo had, what, like 4 powerups or so since he fought Kenpachi? If his growth rate was what made him more dangerous, wouldn't he already be above Kenpachi? Like if Ichigo + No powerups = base Kenpachi then Ichigo + 1 powerup = >base Kenpachi, right? That's my attempt to save the theory, anyway. Hadn't thought of the growth rate thing as possible.


I might be onto something. Reading on, the old Soul Reaper basically taunts the 'fake' Quincy Leader that (paraphrased) "Ichigo only recently obtained Bankai, he has room to evolve so you cannot analyze him." And from what I know of the series, that's the thing that really sets Ichigo apart, not the amount of raw energy (which several characters have) or how hax his weapon is (he has none) or even his energy reserves (mainly just Kenpachi) but how he advances at rates nobody else can come close to.
Also apparently being the bastard-child of Soul Reapers, Quincy, and Hollows- or something like that.

However, if Base Ichigo can match Base Kenpachi, and it's Ichigo's growth that's scary, not his raw power- that should still leave Ichigo the stronger; I think.
That said, Shikai Kenpachi busted the meteor, not base. But if it's truly Ichigo's growth that's the frightening bit (and this is pretty consistently implied even since he was trying to save Rukia) then yes- he would presumably still be stronger than Kenpachi given the same boosts.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby wingedlion » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:37 pm

AOTUA wrote:Originally I was scaling them because Ichigo managed to match Kenpachi before Ichigo even had access to his bankai. I think that's still valid, but there's also the fact that Ichigo was declared the most dangerous of the Special War Powers/Potentials - which also included Kenpachi, Aizen, Urahara, and Ichibe. [ http://www2.mymangalist.org/chapter-bleach-582-8 ]
And, among the Special War Powers/Potentials, Kenpachi's power was was "overestimated" [ http://www2.mymangalist.org/chapter-bleach-505-17 ]
I'd say that's enough to consider them "scalable", yes?

Just wanted to say that while the latter example (the special powers list) would make him scalable, your earlier example of Ichigo matching Kenpachi before he accessed his Bankai would not. Because Kenpachi was weaker then than he is now. Like, much weaker.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:52 pm

Also, what is this
"[True Zanpakuto], Energy Absorption (Can absorb Yhwach's energy for example)"
that's on Vsbattles? Ichigo absorbed Yhwach? The guy who sees all futures and picks and chooses which ones he wants?
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby AOTUA » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:52 am

Friendlysociopath wrote:Also, what is this
"[True Zanpakuto], Energy Absorption (Can absorb Yhwach's energy for example)"
that's on Vsbattles? Ichigo absorbed Yhwach? The guy who sees all futures and picks and chooses which ones he wants?

I believe that's talking about the part where Ichigo had to use Juha's powers to wake up his Zanpakuto, when he gets the horn.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Shgon-Dunstan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:18 pm

Anyone matching "base" Kenpachi before his training in the last arc is completely meaningless. What with the explicitly stating that he had been dialing his power to match theirs so that he could have a good fight.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby AOTUA » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:13 pm

Shgon-Dunstan wrote:Anyone matching "base" Kenpachi before his training in the last arc is completely meaningless. What with the explicitly stating that he had been dialing his power to match theirs so that he could have a good fight.

What about comparing the number of Sternritter beat? Kenpachi, with Nozarashi in Shikai, could defeat one Sternritter, Ichigo, at base, could fight 3 Sternritter at the same time, one of whom has a Vollstandig that's supposed to be one of the more destructive Vollstandigs.
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