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The Great Shonen War

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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Shgon-Dunstan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:35 pm

guardianangel1911 wrote:Ulquiorra's (if the comments I've seen are accurate) ability to destroy Las Noches (the city).

Which mind, they equated to destroying California(the state).

Just about the only bit of Ichigo wank I know of that they didn't just hand him was YH somehow having universal durability.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby CH1C4N0444 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:26 pm

Friendlysociopath wrote:It does and it doesn't, again AFAIK since this is by far not an area I know.
Ichigo naturally has all of those elements within him. Think of them as 'muscles' if you will. For most of the series, Ichigo couldn't use all of these muscles at once, he'd only be using specific ones. Occasionally he would access the other muscles but, because he never used them, it was essentially a power-up because he was gaining power he wasn't using before- even if he had access to it.
If I understand this right, end-game Ichigo has finally learned how to use all of his muscles at once, together, instead of focusing on one at a time because they were new.
It's a power-up if you define that as an increase in power he previously didn't have- but you can also define it as his base because it's not like Bankai where he has to activate it (or so AOTUA seems to claim and the dialogue doesn't exactly contradict AFAIK) or his Hollow form where he only has a limited amount of time in it.
He's finally learned to fight normally, using all of his 'muscles'.
I mean, sure that's only true if he's able to use all of them all the time after that point, which AOTUA has yet to post. I go back to my Midoriya example, should feats of him going 100% be used as his base, even though he barely goes above 5%? Since that's the power he has access to?


Friendlysociopath wrote:Naruto didn't help at all? Hmm, even if he didn't, the rivalry scaling is strong and the fanbase would probably shit a brick if it was insisted Sasuke was outperforming Naruto.
As far as I can tell, no. He should've just get the seal started, but let Sasuke (most likely) and/or Hagamoro (unlikely) do the rest. Chibaku Tensei is an ability only usable by people with the Rinnegan, which Naruto doesn't have whatsoever.


Friendlysociopath wrote:All depends on your point of reference. For example if I were to use those statues to get the size of the planet, it would be small indeed.
Sure. IIRC their frame of reference was using was that it takes 3 days or some distance from HIdden Sand to the Hidden Leaf and they got there in a day and a half. They also assumed that they were moving at supersonic speeds since Sasuke mentions something along those lines during the Chunin exams. I could be misremembering though. All that to say, I really don't like fan calcs, even less now.


Friendlysociopath wrote:The highest showing of Ichigo I personally know of is busting a mountain from shockwaves alone, while overpowering Aizen's own attack at the time. Which I 100% do not remember hard numbers for but I recall Ragnorke insisting it was 'continent level'.
Dunno what site he was referencing but the Vsbattles equivalent for that is 760 Teratons to 4.435 Petatons
I'm not sure how he'd arrive to that though. Like, I get Ichigo did it by blocking Aizen's attack, and I get that the mountain was some distance away, but how does that equate to destroying a continent? I typed in "how much energy does it take to blow up Mt. Everest" to Google and the top answer said some 20 GT. That's 147,666.667x weaker than continent busting. Like, I remember he said the energy needed to blow things up from far away is higher, but I have a hard time believing it'd be that much higher. *shrugs* The further out they are the more powerful (inverse square law, I believe) it'd have to be though, so if they were far enough away that could be the case, but I don't remember them looking that far away in the anime. (sidenote, mangos are hard to get into when you've forgotten your place and you've already seen the animoo...I'll get through you one day, Bleach).

Friendlysociopath wrote:Depends on the size of the mountains. If they're a hundred feet tall for example, those meteors could easily be 10x the size. Which while massive, is not even as tall as the empire state building.
The thing about the Bleach Meteor is it's just... mind-numbingly big because of that 10 day walk thing. (Goes back to see how big he said it was)
220 miles... that's literally hitting someone with the state of Ohio. (How about that, Ohio's 220 miles wide and long?) Granted, being able to see Naruto's meteors against the curve of the Earth would make them large as well but... the scale is just really, really bad. I can't tell one way or the other whether the dude really wants stuff that big or he just doesn't know how to draw large-scale like that (which, to be fair, it's not something often done).

The idea that Kenpachi can do that without power-ups just gives a massive shift in scale for Bleach.
Sure, if you're going by height alone and ignoring the fact that that's the rubble of the original meteors and they were built from the entire land mass of that area.

https://img00.deviantart.net/fe7f/i/201 ... 9mtccv.jpg

From the Hidden Sand Village to Hidden Leaf Village was said to be about a three days walk. If we were able to get our own rough estimate of how far that'd be could we maybe use pixel scaling or some other technique to gauge the distance between HLV and Land of Frost as well as the size of the Land of Frost? I trust people on our site more than outside places (granted, Mea, Aelfinn, Tarbel, Rag, tMWtA, etc seem to be gone or not around ever and they were our most frequent.best calcers). One day, maybe I'll learn how to do it...

That being said, Ichigo was calced to be able to destroy a landmass the size of California at base and they did multiple multipliers and he still came up short against Naruto's DC or durability in the DB (although I have to say, I don't like how they came up with either of their power outputs or durabilities).

AOTUA wrote:Uh, no? Not only is that, what the wiki calls, Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode, which gives him access to both Sage Mode and Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, it's also his strongest form. The eyes tell us which Mode it is. [ http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/673/5 ]
And, that one specifically, also has Naruto using Chakra from at least one other Tailed Beast, on top of the regular boost the Mode gives him [ http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/673/4 ]
Pretty sure that's plain old Sage Mode, I don't see the Truth Seeking Balls, unless I'm missing them. *shrugs* The people working on the wikis probably know more than me, so I'll digress, but I could've sworn this is Six Paths Sage Mode, not that:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nar ... 0915181947

Fair enough on using Son Goku's chakra on top of Kuruma's. It's still not his strongest form though, Ashura Mode is, but it is up there.

Also, regular old Sage mode elongates his pupils like that too, so not necessarily the best way to determine it based off of that.

AOTUA wrote:My first scan actually had nothing to do with the Silbern's destruction, it had to do with the explosion of the attack whose buildup destroyed the Silbern. The Silbern being destroyed happened before Ichigo attacked Juha, it was the direct result of Ichigo getting ready to attack Juha.That's Ichigo's base, just getting ready to attack is, itself, a building-busting attack. When was the last time Naruto destroyed anything just getting ready to attack without any power-ups?
I don't know, I don't think Naruto-verse has ever used that trope to the best of my memory. Seriously though, like, has Naruto ever used that trope? I don't think anyone in the series has ever destroyed things by powering up, I really don't. Feel free to post a scan though if you find one, cus I'm sure it's happened.

AOTUA wrote:That Shikai form? That's his base form, yes. The Horned form, shall we say, didn't grant any new abilities, he already had the power of augmenting his Getsuga Tensho with another attack after attaining his true Shikai. He's using Juha's power to draw nudge the old man awake, and it happens relatively quickly. He doesn't use it again, he uses bankai after Juha goads him into it, then the fight's over. He never gets pushed back into Shikai before the end of the fight anyway.
I'm not saying it granted him new abilities, but I'm saying he seemed to need it to be able to fight at a higher level than he usually does, which from the context of reading seemed like he did. So, he doesn't ever use that form again? So, what other context is there to let me know whether or not he keeps that strength besides your say so? Again, the next few pages he mentions he can't use that from at will and that he needed help to even get in it.

Is Midoriya's 100% his base form is is his 5% his base form? I bring this up because this is basically the same scenario as the one we have here.

Having seen the Deathbattle, I don't really like how they handled either character. They just kinda gave Ichigo the short end of the stick with durability (and I mean, REALLY short end of the stick...literally after mentioning another incredibly impressive durability feat that seemed better to use for Ichigo's durability than the one they did use) and they picked one particular feat for Naruto and said "This is his max," without looking at the other ones (they mention other ones, but they didn't seem to analyze them as deeply as the one they choose for him). Also, the speed difference was fairly large, in my opinion (don't remember the exact number), between the two, which they kinda handwaved away. Wish they through Luffy in there too, would've been cool to see how the three would stack up side by side by side. I think Naruto killed him in a OMM or DBX fight...? I forget.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Alpha or Omega » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:44 pm

Luffy won against Naruto in the One Minute Melee.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Shgon-Dunstan » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:11 am

Alpha or Omega wrote:Luffy won against Naruto in the One Minute Melee.


... And? It's OMM.

Besides, he was shown to of survived that fight in Sasuke's fight with Ichigo(which for all of being OMM, ended with the expected genjutsu lol-nope).
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Friendlysociopath » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:25 am

Shgon-Dunstan wrote:
Alpha or Omega wrote:Luffy won against Naruto in the One Minute Melee.


... And? It's OMM.

Besides, he was shown to of survived that fight in Sasuke's fight with Ichigo(which for all of being OMM, ended with the expected genjutsu lol-nope).


Well, that's what he asked, whether Luffy killed someone in a OMM or DBX.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Alpha or Omega » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:18 am

I was responding to CH1. I believed they even nerfed Naruto and stated that one of the animators have a bias of One Piece over other animes.
Anyway, I didn't say that to make a point other than to correct CH1.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby AOTUA » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:07 pm

CH1C4N0444 wrote:
AOTUA wrote:Uh, no? Not only is that, what the wiki calls, Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode, which gives him access to both Sage Mode and Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, it's also his strongest form. The eyes tell us which Mode it is. [ http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/673/5 ]
And, that one specifically, also has Naruto using Chakra from at least one other Tailed Beast, on top of the regular boost the Mode gives him [ http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/673/4 ]
Pretty sure that's plain old Sage Mode, I don't see the Truth Seeking Balls, unless I'm missing them. *shrugs* The people working on the wikis probably know more than me, so I'll digress, but I could've sworn this is Six Paths Sage Mode, not that:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nar ... 0915181947

Fair enough on using Son Goku's chakra on top of Kuruma's. It's still not his strongest form though, Ashura Mode is, but it is up there.

Also, regular old Sage mode elongates his pupils like that too, so not necessarily the best way to determine it based off of that.

Plain old Sage Mode doesn't have cross-shaped pupils, it has goat eyes with horizontal pupils and orange around the eyes. Six Paths Sage Mode has the cross shaped pupils, because Naruto now has access to both Sage mode and Nine-tails mode. What you've posted here is Six Paths Sage Mode, with the chakra cloak active. It's all still the same form.

This is plain old sage mode: [ https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nar ... 0124180545 ]
No slits, just goat eyes.

I don't know, I don't think Naruto-verse has ever used that trope to the best of my memory. Seriously though, like, has Naruto ever used that trope? I don't think anyone in the series has ever destroyed things by powering up, I really don't. Feel free to post a scan though if you find one, cus I'm sure it's happened.

Naruto didn't do it, I think it was Tobirama who could actually effect the world around him by powering up. Even then, I think it was just shaking the ground or something.

I'm not saying it granted him new abilities, but I'm saying he seemed to need it to be able to fight at a higher level than he usually does, which from the context of reading seemed like he did. So, he doesn't ever use that form again? So, what other context is there to let me know whether or not he keeps that strength besides your say so? Again, the next few pages he mentions he can't use that from at will and that he needed help to even get in it.

Is Midoriya's 100% his base form is is his 5% his base form? I bring this up because this is basically the same scenario as the one we have here.

Midoriya's base form is 0%. He powers up to 5% and then 10 and then 25 and then 100, or whatever. That's not applicable to Ichigo who didn't powerup to reach that form.

The only way Naruto wins is if we, for some reason, forget Ichigo is at the very least equal to a dude who can destroy attacks equal to hitting someone with Ohio. If we forget this, sure, Naruto might win depending on how quickly he goes through his powerups. I'm not forgetting it though.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Mea quidem sententia » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:20 pm

@CH1C4N0444
A three-day journey sounds like a biblical concept. Humans walk on average at a speed of 1.4 m/s, or 5.04 km/h. If the walk qwas for 8 hours, ignoring terrain and taking breaks, walking for 8 hours a day would be 40.32 km/day. So a three-day journey would be 120.96 km. or 75.13 mi.
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Re: The Great Shonen War

Postby Friendlysociopath » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:06 pm

Wow people must either be really pissed or DB is feeling very charitable- there's an HOUR long video answering questions about Naruto vs Ichigo.
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